Wolcen overtook POE as the new number 1 arpg game on Steam (127k concurrent players at the moment)

"

veixc wrote:

"

xssarinx wrote:

Personally I got a refund on Wolcen, I have grown to despise companies releasing a game severely unfinished and misleading information up to release.

Game had a ton of potential, unfortunately I don't see them being able to make any kind of come back after the mess they had.

What a hypocrate, as i see your titels, you have spend tons of money on POE but absolutely every league they release has much worse problems. Every league is like alpha at least one month. You are ready to continously pay for the game that releses bugged and messy content 3-4 times in a year but whine about messy 1st release, what a guy.

I played wolcen offline at beginning and i didnt have any problems, maybe some ingame bugs but it was minority compared to POE.

When the online got fixed i dont have any single disconnects so far, but POE is like DC fest, and its all the way throught the leagues, random DCs is nothing special, its like part of the game.

I am sure you have heard the old phrase, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

In the 7 years or so I have played PoE I have not seen a league even close to the friggen mess they had over at Wolcen.

But I can tell from your reply we are just going to have to agree to disagree, because we all have an opinion.

I think I can count on 1 hand the number of disconnects I have had in PoE, have you checked your own network?

One final note, PoE isn't charging me to play EVER ... it's solely at my own free will that I decide to spend money on MTX, supporter packs etc.

Wolcen however tried to sell me a "finished product" ... and to remind you it was not the version they were promoting up to release ... the ole bait and switcharoo comes to mind.

"

aggromagnet wrote:

And the couple hundred thousand (at least) of us who don't play PoE via Steam ask...so what?

I don't play on steam unless I have to.
I own both though and PoE is better.

First order of business: According to Chris about 90% of the poe playerbase plays through steam. So there's not a "couple hundred thousand" players who don't use steam. I would venture to guess that on league launch they will have an average of maybe 300k players total, at the extreme edge.

Second order of business: Wolcen is not free to play, so even if they don't have higher concurrent user numbers after the first week is irrelevant. They already got their money that first week, whereas PoE may or may not have.

Third order of business: While the Wolcen launch had its issues, PoE's initial launch was as bad or worse, and their league launches currently are not some bug free paradise either. This is objective fact.

Fourth order of business: At launch PoE had about the same level or content as Wolcen launched with. Hell, wasn't until ~7 years in that poe finally got to 10 acts and ditched the repeated 3 acts. It wasn't until about a year in that they released the first version of the atlas system. You can't rightly compare wolcen to current poe because current poe has had nearly a decade of iterations and software development and league mechanics.

"

jtggm1985 wrote:

First order of business: According to Chris about 90% of the poe playerbase plays through steam.

I think you should provide a source for that, last time I heard him mention steam it was about 50/50

"

alhazred70 wrote:

"

jtggm1985 wrote:

First order of business: According to Chris about 90% of the poe playerbase plays through steam.

I think you should provide a source for that, last time I heard him mention steam it was about 50/50

Only quote I can find is 60% steam to 40% standalone so I'm probably wrong on the 90%, but I recall him stating something about players merging more towards steam. Bearing in mind, anecdotally, that I am counter-proof of that as I started on steam and switched to standalone client.

"

jtggm1985 wrote:

First order of business: According to Chris about 90% of the poe playerbase plays through steam. So there's not a "couple hundred thousand" players who don't use steam. I would venture to guess that on league launch they will have an average of maybe 300k players total, at the extreme edge.

Second order of business: Wolcen is not free to play, so even if they don't have higher concurrent user numbers after the first week is irrelevant. They already got their money that first week, whereas PoE may or may not have.

Third order of business: While the Wolcen launch had its issues, PoE's initial launch was as bad or worse, and their league launches currently are not some bug free paradise either. This is objective fact.

Fourth order of business: At launch PoE had about the same level or content as Wolcen launched with. Hell, wasn't until ~7 years in that poe finally got to 10 acts and ditched the repeated 3 acts. It wasn't until about a year in that they released the first version of the atlas system. You can't rightly compare wolcen to current poe because current poe has had nearly a decade of iterations and software development and league mechanics.

1)Baloney sausage.Last time Chris said something was 60/40.Not only that,when he claimed 50/50,he reported on Reddit 250k concurrency on betrayal days.And you can't find your claim because it was never being claimed because you made it up.

2)Wolcen won't ever see another spike as this.They had good faith and now they must make more than redeem themselves like no man's sky.

3)While Poe has issues, Wolcen was the whole day down for some.Their game deleted the saves,they have duplication and infinite gold,magic find scaling to infinity for loot pinatas from single boxes.Objective fact?Poe never had such issues,or anything that couldn't be fixed in an hour of finding something game breaking(kiwihalt aside).Comparing Poe bugs to Wolcen and stating objective fact is really laughable.And I haven't gotten into its other bugs,those where the fundamentals.

4)You might be right on the amount of content that it was similar.However,GGG had a schedule, daily communication,ethics that showed in the game with their actions.What I got from Wolcen?A paid game,developers hiding for days,making me content to sell to me in maybe 4 months time,hotfixes,not patches per week.Want to compare fuvkups of the past?Dig up some apology posts of Chris and Wolcen and compare.Also the scope and vision which is non existent in Wolcen.There is a reason I saw greatness in the pre open beta of August POE.In Wolcen I can only see demise.Anf it shows even now where the end of hour league has more twitch people than Wolcen.Mot a solid metric but you won't see them surpassing PoE again, guaranteed.They played their dirty hand and lost.And that's the objective truth

"

jtggm1985 wrote:

Fourth order of business: At launch PoE had about the same level or content as Wolcen launched with. Hell, wasn't until ~7 years in that poe finally got to 10 acts and ditched the repeated 3 acts. It wasn't until about a year in that they released the first version of the atlas system. You can't rightly compare wolcen to current poe because current poe has had nearly a decade of iterations and software development and league mechanics.

That may be so when you look at it from a moral PoV, as you said "you can´t rightly compare them", so a direct comparison might violate your sense of fairness. But that is not a factual argument. Rather, fact of the matter is that Wolcen released today (as in: the present, currently, not: this very day). So it competes with the PoE of today. From a business PoV (which is what this thread is about because it revolves around player numbers, retention, marketing models and so on and so forth) you can´t really argue "give this game another 10 years, then it will be as good as the competition is today". That´s a recipe for failure. Just look at the car industry for example and compare american and european industry to the japanese industry. And the gaming industry has way faster technological progression and the obsoletion cycle is much shorter. PoE is actually an almost miraculous exception for staying a relevant game for almost 10 years (or 8 if you disregard the first 2 years of Beta-state). Very much in the ballpark of WoW or LoL.

And the argument is also exactly the same as it is with those other two powerhouse games I just mentioned. New releases in the respective genre have to compete with the respective current state of the pinnacle game. It´s one of if not the major reason why MMORPGs kept failing for almost 20 years. Because they didn´t or couldn´t match up to the respectively currently existing top-dogs.

This is a simple fact of the gaming industry, a fact of gaming as a business. And a violation of your sense of fairness is completely irrelevant. Because this is a factual argument.

"

xssarinx wrote:

"

veixc wrote:

"

xssarinx wrote:

Personally I got a refund on Wolcen, I have grown to despise companies releasing a game severely unfinished and misleading information up to release.

Game had a ton of potential, unfortunately I don't see them being able to make any kind of come back after the mess they had.

What a hypocrate, as i see your titels, you have spend tons of money on POE but absolutely every league they release has much worse problems. Every league is like alpha at least one month. You are ready to continously pay for the game that releses bugged and messy content 3-4 times in a year but whine about messy 1st release, what a guy.

I played wolcen offline at beginning and i didnt have any problems, maybe some ingame bugs but it was minority compared to POE.

When the online got fixed i dont have any single disconnects so far, but POE is like DC fest, and its all the way throught the leagues, random DCs is nothing special, its like part of the game.

I am sure you have heard the old phrase, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

In the 7 years or so I have played PoE I have not seen a league even close to the friggen mess they had over at Wolcen.

But I can tell from your reply we are just going to have to agree to disagree, because we all have an opinion.

I think I can count on 1 hand the number of disconnects I have had in PoE, have you checked your own network?

One final note, PoE isn't charging me to play EVER ... it's solely at my own free will that I decide to spend money on MTX, supporter packs etc.

Wolcen however tried to sell me a "finished product" ... and to remind you it was not the version they were promoting up to release ... the ole bait and switcharoo comes to mind.

You probably havent read any tech forum threads, there are tons of ppl who complain about performance issues even while they play pretty decent PCs. My laptop handles mayn games pretty well, like i say i can play WOW 25man raids with no problem and medium settings at same time i lagg and get DCs in POE with minimum settings. And dont come to tell me that its my connection or my laptop fault because POE is the onlyest game that have so many problems and constantly, they havent removed the problems. Iam always ready to pay if i get quaity gameplay. Atm Wolcen gameplay is much much more stable than POE, my laptop fans dosent fly away.

"

veixc wrote:

You probably havent read any tech forum threads, there are tons of ppl who complain about performance issues even while they play pretty decent PCs. My laptop handles mayn games pretty well, like i say i can play WOW 25man raids with no problem and medium settings at same time i lagg and get DCs in POE with minimum settings. And dont come to tell me that its my connection or my laptop fault because POE is the onlyest game that have so many problems and constantly, they havent removed the problems. Iam always ready to pay if i get quaity gameplay. Atm Wolcen gameplay is much much more stable than POE, my laptop fans dosent fly away.

Enjoy your empty stable game. I rather put up with a dc once or twice a league then to play without content. To play a game where certain stats and half the passive tree do NOTHING, because they had no time left to finish the game. Enjoy your alpha experience.

Me? I rather play a full released game.

So many players who "want to like the game" still only mixed reviews due to gamebreaking bugs.
Will not buy before they fix their "release version".