Having us kill civilians in Oriath Square is tasteless.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

That's emphasized extremely heavily in the characters backstories.

To me, "the characters' backstories" and "extremely heavily emphasised" don't really work very well together, given how thin on the ground those backstories actually are. A few seconds of dialogue at the beginning (from Dominus, whose views we don't respect anyway) and the occasional line dropped throughout the game. Hardly deep and complete knowledge about any of them.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

The only ones who aren't murderers just for the sake of killing are the Templar and Marauder, and it's way beyond heavily emphasized why the Templar would actively want to kill them through the whole game.

Can I ask where in the game it is 'beyond heavily emphasised' that, say, the Templar actively wants to murder Oriathan civilians?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

They're. Not. Real. People.

There's always at least one.

Congratulations for being "that guy."

You're the one being "that guy". Its a video game where you slaughter thousands of people. If you are so offended maybe go find a new genre to play.

"

To me, "the characters' backstories" and "extremely heavily emphasised" don't really work very well together, given how thin on the ground those backstories actually are. A few seconds of dialogue at the beginning (from Dominus, whose views we don't respect anyway) and the occasional line dropped throughout the game. Hardly deep and complete knowledge about any of them.

The characters used to have far less vague introductions before they got replaced by the inferior Dominus lines. For example Dominus doesn't mention things like Duelist killing a high noble for dishonoring him or the Shadow being drugged and kidnapped by his employers to be exiled.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

The only ones who aren't murderers just for the sake of killing are the Templar and Marauder, and it's way beyond heavily emphasized why the Templar would actively want to kill them through the whole game.

Can I ask where in the game it is 'beyond heavily emphasised' that, say, the Templar actively wants to murder Oriathan civilians?

Is that a joke? He was called a traitor by the place, exiled, and then forced to kill all of his old friends and his literal god. If you wouldn't want everybody dead in that situation you've got some heavy self-esteem issues.

The entire game would be a crazy mind fuck torture for him, unless he's the worlds biggest pussy he would want them all dead.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

Is that a joke? He was called a traitor by the place, exiled, and then forced to kill all of his old friends and his literal god. If you wouldn't want everybody dead in that situation you've got some heavy self-esteem issues.

The entire game would be a crazy mind fuck torture for him, unless he's the worlds biggest pussy he would want them all dead.

I don't think that's necessarily how it works at all, the guy is just thinking that everthing is a trial sent to him by 'god' (whatever it is, not necessarilty innocence) , he has to hold on to his faith.
This does not mean that he's a sociopath or a psycopath though, it does not mean that he has no moral.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

The only ones who aren't murderers just for the sake of killing are the Templar and Marauder, and it's way beyond heavily emphasized why the Templar would actively want to kill them through the whole game.

Can I ask where in the game it is 'beyond heavily emphasised' that, say, the Templar actively wants to murder Oriathan civilians?

Is that a joke? He was called a traitor by the place, exiled, and then forced to kill all of his old friends and his literal god. If you wouldn't want everybody dead in that situation you've got some heavy self-esteem issues.

The entire game would be a crazy mind fuck torture for him, unless he's the worlds biggest pussy he would want them all dead.

So, to be clear: your idea of the game 'beyond heavily emphasising' this is...your (bizarre) personal view that people who've experienced trauma are pussies if they don't want to murder random civilians.

Okay, cool. Glad I asked.

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Fruz wrote:

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

Is that a joke? He was called a traitor by the place, exiled, and then forced to kill all of his old friends and his literal god. If you wouldn't want everybody dead in that situation you've got some heavy self-esteem issues.

The entire game would be a crazy mind fuck torture for him, unless he's the worlds biggest pussy he would want them all dead.

I don't think that's necessarily how it works at all, the guy is just thinking that everthing is a trial sent to him by 'god' (whatever it is, not necessarilty innocence) , he has to hold on to his faith.
This does not mean that he's a sociopath or a psycopath though, it does not mean that he has no moral.

Innocence is the one they worship as "god". He says it's a trial in the beginning before he finds out Innocence went crazy and was slaughtering people. I'm not sure how much you payed attention to the Blight stuff, but Cassia made it pretty clear Innocence was "god".

The guy is going to take anything as a test sent from above because at this point he has no other choice after all he's been through.

I don't think it matters if he realizes that innocence isn't the "all mighty god", and right after you get him down, you're being told that he's looking for forgivness through Banon

I think Templar would be the one character to actively avoid killing civilians in pretty much most cases I can imagine. He is still clearly a good man betrayed by an obviously corrupt organization.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Posts like this, you mean?

Posts like this.

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A thematic defense only works if there is narrative coherence throughout the campaign regarding your character's moral ambiguity in the first place, so if that was your contribution, then yeah, I probably didn't find it a particularly compelling comment.

There is such coherence. Moral ambiguity is stacked to the rafters in this game if you actually pay any attention at all to the plot of the campaign and its place in the history of the setting. It's not GGG's fault almost nobody does. This game has commentary on religion as maintext, and the nature of the gods within it form an allegory for class war.

Edit: I swear, half the reason Ebert said videogames aren't art is that it seems like anyone who isn't extremely well-versed in this medium is totally incapable of fully examining the context of what they do in the game. If there's not pages of conventional exposition detailing everything about a setting and its characters, you think that information just isn't there and the devs weren't trying.