melee.. melee never changes

"

VolcanoElixir wrote:

I highly disagree with the idea that a skill that does specifically cold damage and built specifically for freezing enemies so that you can shatter them should not have Herald of Ice as part of a clearing setup.

I first played my glacial hammer zerker with herald of ice and the lag was even worse.

So for the players with super potato pcs playing without herald of ice is a thing.

"

VolcanoElixir wrote:

I highly disagree with the idea that a skill that does specifically cold damage and built specifically for freezing enemies so that you can shatter them should not have Herald of Ice as part of a clearing setup.

If this is related to my comment, first of all I also do agree with this idea ( I had been using it too ).

But, herald of ice is just too strong, the very fact that the on-death effect can freeze and therefore propagate itself is really silly.
Why does Herald of thunder have explicitely "Cannot inflict Shock" but Herald of Ice does not have "Cannot Freeze" ??

I mean, it would not even make it weak if it could not propagate itself, it would still be strong, but at the moment it isn't strong, it's beyond stupid t_t.
When it comes to opportunity cost ... I mean come on ...


In other words, a big part of the clearing potential here does not come from glacial hammer, but from herald of ice.

GH enables HoI. It should absolutely be allowed to be part of the discussion, and IMO it doesn't even need HoI anyway, it's an option.

If there was no HoI it would just be "now do it without Ancestral Call and a source of splash". It's just trying to get people to handicap their clearing ability to move goalposts.

"

TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

hi

My Glacial Hammer

T15 Coves Blighted map

Mods:
Enfeeble
Monsters have 365% increased crit
+43% monster crit multi
Nemesis mod

https://youtu.be/9LB3wFDRXdc


Level 93
No Watcher's eye
No Elder/Shaper items
No multimods
6L with Ancestral Call

Looks viable to meee...

thanks for sharing.

i do not want to shatter your dreams or anything but.. is that it? you claimed that GH is 'OP' so i expected something REALLY good.

what i see is typical pom-pom melee build with all its weaknesses and clunky gameplay





you went with the 'stack attack speed' route (as predicted, you used high AS to cover up the clunkyness). as a berserker your only 'tanky' feature is high hp (Kaom's chest+boots? i see little to no links so that might be it) so it does not support the 'melee is tanky because ascendancies' theory

i hope you realize that for this particular setup (Blighted map) and your character Frost Blades is STRICTLY superior? you cannot cull bosses but you can offscreen thrash mobs that hit your pump before they even enter the screen

There is FastAF's GH showcase. luckily he also did Frost Blades. you can compare and see whats the difference. he has the BEST gear/setup possible as he is RichAF and can afford anything.

some of you think Fireball is bad, maybe check that for benchmark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YY36j8Q49Q
this is the same environment but with 'worst' spell. guess what maps faster, is safer and has higher chance to react if portal spawns near the pump.



as for the infernal blow - the same story. targeting sucks. you either gimp your damage with AC or have worse clear with MS. without either of those youll hit nothing most of the time. targeting is THIS BAD

sure IB clears nicely with AC but everything clears nicely. vs bosses you either gem swap (sucks) or accept 40% damage loss (sucks). because total damage output of IB is nothing special (ramp up evens out the damage to 'standard' level). flat added fire is more of an insult than a bonus - you cannot really scale it well so it ends up being irrelevant

oh and it crashed the game for the first month of this league :)

"

VolcanoElixir wrote:

GH enables HoI. It should absolutely be allowed to be part of the discussion, and IMO it doesn't even need HoI anyway, it's an option.

If there was no HoI it would just be "now do it without Ancestral Call and a source of splash". It's just trying to get people to handicap their clearing ability to move goalposts.

So .... HoI being busted ( really ), using it means that GH is fine ? Is that right ?


(it doesn't)

I won't argue with the conclusion you made, there are still way better HoI deliveries and clear skills in the game. I just don't agree with how you're trying to argue it which is to dismiss what others are doing with the skill because it takes advantage of certain interactions.

"

sidtherat wrote:

Bow league so noone cares but still. Few points for consideration

1. Mechanics

Melee 'strike' targeting is garbage. It doesnt work right now. There is NO WAY of playing strike skill without either Multistrike (garbage clear), Ancestral Call (garbage single target) or Tribal Fury (high cost and opportunity cost). Anyone saying 'it works' - try Facebreaker + Infernal Blow. and tell me it 'works'. It doesnt.

Didn't read the whole thread yet, but here's a good thing to think about. What all bow skills work without lmp/gmp? You are literally picking a type of skill meant for single target and then complaining about the fact that it needs a support to make it work against groups. At least melee has a ton of skills built for groups in the first place. There are a ton of bow skills and projectile spells that are complete shit without the tax of lmp/gmp.

"

Telzen wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

Bow league so noone cares but still. Few points for consideration

1. Mechanics

Melee 'strike' targeting is garbage. It doesnt work right now. There is NO WAY of playing strike skill without either Multistrike (garbage clear), Ancestral Call (garbage single target) or Tribal Fury (high cost and opportunity cost). Anyone saying 'it works' - try Facebreaker + Infernal Blow. and tell me it 'works'. It doesnt.

Didn't read the whole thread yet, but here's a good thing to think about. What all bow skills work without lmp/gmp? You are literally picking a type of skill meant for single target and then complaining about the fact that it needs a support to make it work against groups. At least melee has a ton of skills built for groups in the first place. There are a ton of bow skills and projectile spells that are complete shit without the tax of lmp/gmp.

there is a difference between 'skill is weak' and 'skill doesnt work'

to understand that try what i asked you to do: play Infernal Blow Facebreaker WITHOUT targeting crutches

your build is not going to be 'weak' because it deals low damage. it is going to be pathetic because youll miss targets that were JUST THERE IN FRONT of you most of the time. there were NUMEROUS reddit and yt posts about that with examples of zombos standing RIGHT THERE, stationary and character hitting everything around the zombo (with RT ofc)


with bow - youll hit the target. damage, clear etc are going to be garbage, but the mechanic WORKS.

strike melee targeting - DOES NOT WORK without crutches. (you can cover it up with 20 attacks per second, at that point it doesnt matter, but if you want to check what i mean - try FB+IB)

not to mention that skill like Static Strike does not need multi hit - it needs just ONE hit (and then you run). so when you use AC you do that solely to 'fix' the targeting.

it is mechanic problem, not damage-coverage-power problem

They work just fine. I've even done frost blades without multi-strike before. Sure it lets you be lazier if you have it, but to say it "doesn't work" is complete bs. Move cursor over target, hold button down till its dead then repeat.

frost blades with 30+ range? sure it works. (range is yet another crutch. sadly only one skill can make it good enough for it to matter. FB or claws/daggers cannot make that range big enough to overcome the shi...ess of current targeting system)

again, try what i asked you to do. you wont get it otherwise

'place the cursor over the target'?