melee.. melee never changes
" This is just ignorance of you and majority of "melee is shit" player base. Yeah you can make Chaos dot Zerker just as easy as Sabo melee. Most bosses when in close range will just default attack you with mix of phys/ele damage and that is something melee can take much easier than ranged chars. Countless times i've seen players fighting Shaper/Elder from some distance and having horrible time dodging spells from both of them instead staying in the melee range. " 2H Uniques are. 2H rares are very powerful. " 'melee is extraordinary good at ....' having xy more fun than playing totems and actually have a meaningful roll play. Still haven't played single Templar char on my acc. Simply, he looks like a pedo to me. xD |
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" Why? Because they're melee or because you had to make them that way to play melee in the first place? You can make a tough ranged character and just stand in melee if it's safer there in that particular situation, at least you have a choice. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► |
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" Because that's how you play melee. You are all talking like bows and ranged are some kind of divine, untouchable thing in PoE, just they aren't and they eat most oneshots everyone is crying about... |
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" Enjoy melee as it is then, never had much luck explaining why the sky is blue. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► |
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" Do remember that most bosses auto-attacking you = constant damage dealt in a continuous way, while even horrible dodging scenarios still rely on you NOT TAKING ANY DAMAGE, and sure, if you get to higher degrees of skillplay you can disregard a lot of the dangerous situations... A ranged/caster character always has the option to deal damage from a safer distance, and also has higher windows of dealing said damage, compared to "melee" which has to survive a lot more damage while manually dodging AND dealing less constant damage. That, combined with the fact you don't get intrinsic survival bonuses as melee, is the problem. These days, I know from personal experience that going damage capped with a REAL MELEE skill is like flipping on another level of the difficulty, compared to playing anything AoE/ranged, and that you need at least 2-3 "MOAR DAMAGE" on the melee character to feel as impactful as the ranged/caster one. There is not a single damn incentive to play REAL MELEE (Cyclone with half a screen AoE =|= REAL MELEE btw), compared to a ranged character. Everything a REAL MELEE character can do, a ranged/caster char will do several times better. PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...
Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... |
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" ive tried to find the 'melee strenghts' by checking your profile for clues. sadly, found nothing so far. one cyclone build, one dismantled blade flurry build and few sub lvl90 experiments that were too young to judge defensive mechanics you speak so highly about were nowhere to be found - unless you mean that Kaom's chest is somehow limited to melee? is that it? or maybe you mean Fortify that anyone but archer can use nowadays? guard skills? since when these are limited to melee? if you use words like 'ignorance' you better support that with something. right now there is nothing of substance to work on. same with 2h rares - how they are powerful? because of 7th link? you know chests can roll good stuff as well, dont you? nothing stops you from dual wielding 2 multimoded foils and getting so much more value for your buck. faster impales, faster ailiments, faster movement and better movement skill. not to mention that not all 2h base types are made equal - 2h maces can roll.. nothing of value (yet another 'diversity'). do the math on 2 multimoded foils, check dual wielding nodes and intrinsic bonus - compare to rare 2h and tell me the result. there is a reason majority picks dual wielding - because 2h are inferior except for some corner cases (and 2 extremely strong unique swords that use different scaling mechanic) yet another 'diversity' area: ranged builds can use pseudo-6links from gloves/helmets much more effectively for clear skill as the support gems from the pool are much more useful. ranged builds deal so much damage that they can manage with 4 link for 'clear' setup and even 'suboptimal' support like Faster Attacks is good enough. for low budget it makes gearing much cheaper and easier Last edited by sidtherat#1310 on Nov 28, 2019, 1:01:37 AM
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I really didn't want to bother but some of this is just so plain wrong that i can't leave it uncommented.
" The Ascendancies do. Berserker aside the other 5 melee ascendancies provide far more defensive utility than any other ascendancy. Slayer leech, Champions Fortify, Gladiators Block and Spellblock and Chieftain/Juggernauts Endurance Charges, flat Damage reduction and life regen. What do other ascendancies have? Guardian can reach high ES jevels and Trickster has Ghost Shrouds but the rest? There ist also leech, which casters can't utilize unless they are full ES, and fortify which neither casters nor bow builds can use effectively. Sure you can slap it on the shieldcharge of your casterbuild but is it really a good idea to charge right into mobs with your ranged build to get a defensive buff you wouldn't need if you just stayed away? " As mentioned above, no they aren't. If you can offscreen everything maybe, but i'd really like to see you do that in maps like toxic sewers or in delves where monsters flock behind every corner and the entire map is full of corners. Most maps are designed so that you can't offscreen everything. Maybe a 20 Million dps build can kill everything before it touches him but go try play like that with a 200 k dps iceshot build in tier 16 maps. Should be hilarious to watch. " No they aren't. Both Shaper and Elder are far less dangerous if you stay close to them. Elders circle doesn't bother melees at all, ranged chars on the other hand have to respond in some way. Uber lab is another example. A melee can just face tank Izaro, a caster/bow build may have to try and evade him with all the traps and shit filling the entire arena. In general some arenas are so small that effective kiting is next to impossible. Have you ever tried kiting the brine king in his final phase? Maybe you never noticed because your 20 Million dps build just invalidates bosses but when you have to deal with boss mechanics it becomes an entirely different game. " So you wanna tell me there aren't BIS choices for any given gear slot for any given caster build? The weapons obviously don't matter much to casters but the rest has BIS choices as well, it's the nature of things. There are also things like Nebuloch which aren't swords and are BIS for certain melee builds. " Thankfully pretty much all the melee ascendancies provie at least one of those and the ones that don't provide raw damage to compensate. With icegolem and precision on top on the tree options you really don't have to stretch yourself for accuracy and crit chance. " You really might want to google Nebuloch builds. There are quite a few of them, just look into the guide section here in the forum. Obviously melee isn't that common at the top of the meta because the top of the meta is filled with broken shit like summoners. 99% of your bow and caster builds can't compete with that either. Honestly most of your arguments make it look like it's been quite a while since you last had to actually deal with Monsters and boss mechanics. i don't know if it's due to you having stopped playing years ago or because all you play are high Level meta builds with enough dps to trivialize any content. Because it's only for those builds that your arguments actually apply. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Nov 28, 2019, 1:30:45 AM
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" ???? That's a lot of nonsense there. Dangerous bosses do not "just default attack you", especially not elder/shaper. There is one spell that the elder does if you are not in melee range, everything else he still does in melee range, only when you have to move away to clear the poopers that spawn ( assuming you don't have high dps to delete the elder within 10 secs like many have now ), spend time going there and come back while he will throw ice spears at you. A ranged character would just have shot the pooper without spending time moving to get it in the first place. Sid is overall right, but he is delusional, GGG has shown no intent to actually "fix" the "melee problem", and they just won't. Jonathan absurdly optimist statements are not going to change this, same as the statement about "we know about power creep and we are going to do something about it" " And you don't need to play a melee character to be a zerk .... Same for champion, juggs, guardians, tricksters etc ... These ascendancy are not melee-only ascendancies, at all, so it's quite irrelevant really. " Do you really think that the main selling point of Nebuloch is the damage ? Or can we all agree that unique with very specific uses are absolutely NOT what he was talking about ? SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Well. Ascendancies are not 'melee' only. Guardians are THE tankiest classes out there due to absurdities of high investment mana->ES scaling. And guardians can be anything. Same with slayers or berserkers. Sure there are minor deficiencies like impale nodes on full ele build make no sense. But you can make dual Nebuloh BV Jugg just as well.
It doesnt work the other way around - projectile based ascendancies apply just to few melee skills and at least one of them (Lightning Strike) doesnt work in most tilesets. Offscreening in Toxic Sewers? It is the easiest map to do so - Herald of Ice can clear up to mechanical limit. It chains and spreads. Ofc you can proc HoI with melee as well but somehow it works much better with casters and archers. And you can easily offscreen t16 with 200k dps nowadays. And you can do bosses with that if ranged because you have high uptime on damage while melee has to reposition. Time on target is what makes up for the paper dps difference. Brine king? The boss with clearly labeled safe and danger zones and no hp? Never considered him anything but a pushover even on weak builds with no damage. Oh and one thing. I dont play 20mil.dps builds. These are boring as f.. My most recently played are lightning trap sire of shards and ele overload storm brand. Both with sub 500k dps. Both with incredible clear. Standoff capability and surprisingly tanky due to not having to interact with anything. Traper uses lightning coil 3 end charges and lvl22 chaos golem plus cwdt20 molten shell temp chains and MoM and is yet to die (lvl92) despite using slow leap slam for mobility. Tankiness is build related. Not melee related. Sure juggs with 9 end charges can be tankier but that limits them to pretty much one setup (aka set in arpg dictionary). Elder circle might be cool for melee but his poo spreading cronies are not and you have to move to get them. That triggers ice projectiles and all hell breaks lose. Same with shaper. His beam is easy to avoid but i hope you know it has AOE and you cannot atand close to him even when behind. Bit of micromanagemt that ranged can ignore saving time and keeping the dps up. Obvious choices.. there is balance in choices. All summon skills are viable useful and interesting in their own ways. For melee weapons you have foils, fast claws and all the remaining junk. Diversity does not remove best choice. But it prevents obvious choices. In melee weapons there are obvious choices and bad choices. Sad that the latter make 95% of all options. |
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" You just forgot to mention what is that Shaper and Elder doesn't do? Oh yeah, their most dangerous spells, balls and spears. Every decent build nowadays have enough dps to clear adds quickly. But you are ssf hc dude and your point of view is quite different. Baharoth15 tried to explain some things. I understand what he is talking, rest of you don't. Most of the time monsters are so close to you it doesn't matter are you melee or not, they will be swarming. And if you are only satisfied with tanky chars that can offscreen, it says a lot about your skills at this game. But Fruz is forgiven due to masochism. :P |
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