Elemental and Physical Reflect Maps

Reward for running reflect map is absolutely horrible for strain such map mod exposes you to. I gave you the values, which are in line with map mods deemed beneficial, ie. Bloodlines. It makes not economic sense even considering building character able to run reflect mods.

If GGG adjust IIQ/IIR/pack size values, I might consider gearing and build for those. As it currenlty stands, I 100% going to reroll any reflect mod, to which I'm not immune. Amount of resources and time needed to make your character able to run reflect maps is not worth the rewards and costs of rerolling. It is more annoyance than challenge.

Map mods are ancient and did not see update in ages. GGG has reworked map system several time, introduced Atlas, Shaper, Elder and masters, and reworked them, but map mods did not receive any significant change in ages. I truly hope GGG will look at this aspect of the end-game and come up with a system more resembling sextants where we have neutral mods and positive mods, with or without minor negative effect. I would much prefer to have a system that motivates me to roll for good map mods rather than have a system where I avoid bad mods.

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

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PS. Way to go to counter elemental reflect by not dealing any physical damage. You plan to bore those monsters to death or what?

These ideas are for phys reflect maps.

I was referring to his post where he specifically send "best to deal with physical reflect maps".

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SisterBlister wrote:

Then I didn't just blindly jump into huge packs and it was OK. Quite exciting actually, as I had to play a lot more carefully then before and had occasional close calls.

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

It's a red map, not Uber Elder. Being slowed down if for whatever reason there is somehow literally no other option than to run this one map out of thousands is not a big deal at all.

Let's just address that nonsense now.

I don't know what version of PoE you guys are running, but currently we are in PoE 3.7, and PoE 3.7 we have :
- Abysses
- Breaches
- Syndicate encounters
- Legion

And for ALL of those, if you cannot reach the clearing threshold (which you won't if you take monsters 3 by 3 because of reflect), you FAIL, you literally cannot interact with this content properly.

Arguably, Beasts can also add to that for those who spawns addds relentlessely.


So there you go, you are just excluded from the content just by running a reflect map if your build is low enough on dps to run it.
AMAZING !?

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Head_less wrote:

-What s not realistic, A melee build can swap to ancestral totems without any problem. There is even a support to have multiple totem now

so .. like the other guy, I explain something (simply), but you quote the previous line and just asked exactly what I explained, pretending you missed it.

Funny how it works, isn't it ?

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Head_less wrote:

-Phy to light inside a 6l was the go to in HC since 2013 at least for phy melee build. Nothing unrealistic there.

Recoloring your chest if you are not using a blue socket ? Not unrealistic ? -_____-
And you are assuming that everybody is playing physical builds too or something ?
(not, with the current syndicate spawn, you don't just get Vorici to spawn easily in research lab + just run it whenever you want)

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Head_less wrote:

-simply switching gear for a map, put those crap rings to counter reflect. Nothing unrealistic unless players are lazy and can t use their brain to even swap gems or rings.

Switching rings now, we're back to that level on nonsense I see.

GOTCHA, thanks for trolling trying

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SisterBlister wrote:

You're saying "I want my character to do be able to do it all. I don't want to have to build for it, I don't want to have to occasionally reroll a map if its risk-vs-reward doesn't suit this character

So .... let's see about the CHOICES that the game gives us :
- play something that is affected by reflect and get fucked eventually, not being able to run all map mods
- play traps and faceroll everything, grossly cheezing most bosses in the game too
- play Elementalist/Slayer, ignore reflect, be able to run all map mods.

What are the pros of the first choice .... HMMM ... LET'S SEE ........
HHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMM

right, jack shit
This isn't balance, this is a mod that has nothing to do with the game anymore, it brings nothing and punishes many builds for absolutely no freaking reason, that's all there is to it.

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Baron01 wrote:

If GGG adjust IIQ/IIR/pack size values, I might consider gearing and build for those. As it currenlty stands, I 100% going to reroll any reflect mod, to which I'm not immune. Amount of resources and time needed to make your character able to run reflect maps is not worth the rewards and costs of rerolling. It is more annoyance than challenge.

It clearly isn't, it's blatantly and grossly unrealistic, I would even call it stupid because of how obvious it is ....

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Baron01 wrote:

I was referring to his post where he specifically send "best to deal with physical reflect maps".

Lulz you just mixed yourself up, he said elem reflect, which is why it did not make sense.

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So there you go, you are just excluded from the content just by running a reflect map if your build is low enough on dps to run it.
AMAZING !?

I mean why would I need to run that content if all I want from the map is Atlas completion or progresion towards a challenge. I can do that stuff in any other map.

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Fruz wrote:

And for ALL of those, if you cannot reach the clearing threshold (which you won't if you take monsters 3 by 3 because of reflect), you FAIL, you literally cannot interact with this content properly.

Oh come on, Fruz! The point isn't that this map mod is totally fine as is. I've made that very clear in several of my posts. The point is that you DO have options and that if you really don't want to / cannot use any of these options, then all you lose is a chaos for a reroll or maybe even a whole map if you cannot reroll it and cannot trade it away.
And only if you really have no char that (due to cheeze mechanics or whatever) can handle reflect.

Why do people feel the need to be able to do it all with the same char?! They are perfectly willing to build specialized deep delvers, crazy speed lab runners, High MF map clearers who stay away from hard bosses, etc... but it's absolutely unthinkable to have a map mod which this specific character can't do?

In that case you must also remove "no leech", "no regen", as these can be almost impossible to deal with for some characters.
And get rid of of "-max res" maps, because the very first thing everybody who complains about instagibs is told is: "You MUST have all resis overmaxed".
And get rid of really ugly combinations of crit/Extra dmg/reduced max res, etc...

What remains is that we should all just run blue low level maps to farm fragments. Except now they are high red maps, because they can no longer have threatening mods.

Answer this please: What can possibly still challenge a build which does millions of DPS? Is there anything at all in the game you cannot cheeze that way? It's OK to have some roadblocks/challenges in the game, especially when it's in completely optional content like a map mod creates.

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Baron01 wrote:

I was referring to his post where he specifically send "best to deal with physical reflect maps".

This is amazing, use your common sense pls you think I would make a this typo in purpose.

Yes I meant phy damage and made a typo while my kid was grabbing my legs asking for candies. Now just tell explain me why you can t use this belt vs phy reflect.

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Head_Less wrote:

this would imply you use all of those nods and not decide a mix of reduced reflect nods + swap of gems (swap phy to light VS phy reflect maps for example)

Melee-casters can also use totems when the map mods is not favorable. Sure all this means you get slow clear speed but if you decide to play this map instead of re-rolling then you need to adapt.

This is theoretical build that based on calculations can deal most damage while being affected by reflect map mod.
What you suggest is complete change of what person is playing. If i play tornado shot build and for a sake of reflect map i turn it into tornado shot totem build this doesn't mean i found a way to deal with reflect. This only means i changed build im playing to another one that happens to ignore reflect.

If I play caustic arrow my build struggle with no mana regen map mod. I can counter this by removing one of my flask and taking mana potion with me (map is harder because i have to manage flask charges) or in addition i turn one aura off and play like this mod isn't here. I still play same build, i lost some dmg/def. but it is still the same but slighty worse.

If i play phys/ele build i can't do same thing with reflect mod.
1) Conversion only works for phys. dmg and can ruin your build (different colours in main skill, resistance on gloves/armour etc.)

2) You can't negate same way ele reflect

3) Turning your build into something different is simply stupid. Reflect is the only mod that is capable of either one shotting you or is meaningless.
Also reflect is the only negative mod that affect player and cannot be negated by simply replacing one flask.

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SisterBlister wrote:

All the maths in this thread is cute and may even be correct for pure DPS builds, but obviously it is doable if you balance your build and adjust your play style. I just did it. And I can clear T15 maps just fine, so my dmg is not too shabby, either.

Kek
26,6k dps per target = "full dps build" in your opinion.
Can you please make a video and show me how you are clearing t15 maps with reflect mod without any problems without going for such a crazy numbers as 26,6k dps per target?

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karoollll2534 wrote:

...Can you please make a video and show me how you...

Nope. Can't be arsed and no speed junky would want to see my slow ass build in "action" anyway :)

If you assume that people who have different experiences to you are just lying, then you should not expect to ever have fruitful discussions.

Just reroll the reflect map and stop whining. You're simply asking for the game to be further trivialized. How hc leet of you :rolleyes:

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SisterBlister wrote:

Nope. Can't be arsed and no speed junky would want to see my slow ass build in "action" anyway :)

If you assume that people who have different experiences to you are just lying, then you should not expect to ever have fruitful discussions.

Just reroll the reflect map and stop whining. You're simply asking for the game to be further trivialized. How hc leet of you :rolleyes:

What a surprise ;)

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Fruz wrote:

GOTCHA, thanks for trolling trying

All of this is non sense really.

Either you play the map with relfect and adapt/make a build around the possibility such mod can appear or you re-roll the map.

You are making a nervous poop because there is a possibility this mod can roll on maps and you don t want to bother either rerolling or adapting.

You want to be able to play while watching tv I get it, probably Chris can erase reflect anyway they did it for many things already so you can play safely with full disconnection of the brain activity.

Poe 2019 is just build something in pob and going full brainless automaton, no wish to change even a part of gear or gem if a map mod is bad, no no you can t just reroll that would be too much of an effort.



just erase every single choice to be made and create a streamlined experience for those who just want a braidead 1 click shooter . Why there is even rpg in arpg, just let us play while watching tv with our 2k ehp build with 15 millions dps already.

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karoollll2534 wrote:

This is theoretical build that based on calculations can deal most damage while being affected by reflect map mod.
What you suggest is complete change of what person is playing. If i play tornado shot build and for a sake of reflect map i turn it into tornado shot totem build this doesn't mean i found a way to deal with reflect. This only means i changed build im playing to another one that happens to ignore reflect.

If I play caustic arrow my build struggle with no mana regen map mod. I can counter this by removing one of my flask and taking mana potion with me (map is harder because i have to manage flask charges) or in addition i turn one aura off and play like this mod isn't here. I still play same build, i lost some dmg/def. but it is still the same but slighty worse.

If i play phys/ele build i can't do same thing with reflect mod.
1) Conversion only works for phys. dmg and can ruin your build (different colours in main skill, resistance on gloves/armour etc.)

2) You can't negate same way ele reflect

3) Turning your build into something different is simply stupid. Reflect is the only mod that is capable of either one shotting you or is meaningless.
Also reflect is the only negative mod that affect player and cannot be negated by simply replacing one flask.

Yea if you want to play ranged 3 screen away 1 shooting packs god forbid you need to think about an eventual difficulty and adapt to it by lowering your dps.

It s not like you can t reroll those mods already.

And corrupting a map is supposed to earn you difficult mods for higher loot drops. If you don t want to take this risk then don t corrupt those damn maps and reroll. If you can t play those corrupted hard mods why even trying?

as for ele reflect there are few archetype that can negate it but it is true to be harder to manage without those archetype than phy damage. None the less you can play with 1 support less on a 5l or 4l and still clear stuff nicely.