Path of Exile and p2w
" I think we sort of agree. If you are equating "pay-to-play" with "p2w-lite" in order to shade PoE in a negative light due to their statement of being never "p2w" then I would not agree. But really I think the emotion for most of those insisting PoE is p2w comes from having to pay anything at all in a game that is labeled as "free-to-play." I would agree that most gaming companies do not do themselves any favors when they self-promote in that context. I do not think we are very far apart at all, as you say, and we are talking about subtle differences with much more emotional impact than practical. Have we exhausted this line of conjecture :) ? |
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I think the biggest point everyone loses sight of is - what do you "win" in Path of Exile? The leaderboards are a massive Who Cares and the economy is just a lot of pixels with no real value - and remember kids, RMTing is against the ToS so put that response in the bin. And outside of Standard the economy resets every 4 months anyway.
Basically the answer to the question is Epeen, and if that is important enough for you in nearly 10 year old PoE, well have at it. I at least respect the passions in your debate if not the content. |
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" Apparently probationed Shameless here has a heavy heart from the advantage he gets over his fellow players he almost never interacts with because of his tab purchases. That is a lot of weight to carry around daily, if you feel badly about minor actions such as this. I bet you can't even stand up straight anymore or look anyone in the eye. I bought a bus pass in August so I have a distinct advantage in my commute over people having to bring exact change. I can't raise my head on the bus and look people in the eye anymore, so much guilt. I know he's being hyperbolic, but sometimes you have to call it out. |
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" Most people ignore this line of argumentation because it is irrelevant and misleading. "Pay2win" does not and never has meant what you ascribe to the term. It refers to paying real money for in-game advantages. Wash your hands, Exile!
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it is sbout this called advantage, because it only gives more comfort, but it is never garanteed that you will sell moe, because of the stash tabs. There is no win, it is just to have it easier, not more or less
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" Right, point made. You aren't actually arguing about the game, you are debating semantics. Well, please, continue. |
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" The meaning of words is actually important when discussing things, you know. Wash your hands, Exile!
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"The word you're looking for here is misnomer. It would be like if people got mad you called it a blackboard because it was dark green. |
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" Your thinking is partially correct. A misnomer is an incorrect word for a given definition. We are talking about the opposite of that. " No, because that would be an obvious logical fallacy. Blackboards are green(-ish). Sorry, what was your point? Wash your hands, Exile!
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" Irrelevant because paytowin is used to describe paid advantages rather than winning the game. MMORPG's for example consists of a loop of sandbox activity rather than having any set "win" condition. Does this mean that paytowin cannot exist in a MMORPG? EA would certainly agree. Even if the strawman "winning" argument was to be taken seriously, it would mean that even the most blatant paytowin mechanics could not be rightfully called paytowin anymore. To further attack your pointless strawman (for fun), one could for example say the peer competition is a human trait (which is true) and in that sense you are in a competitive social sense "winning" as your paid advantages holds a subjective social value which can then be equated to competitive progression, aka social victory :) In the end the design does fall under the paytowin label because it allows you to circumvent painful game systems by purchasing microtransactions. This is not much different than paying for something as basic as an xp boost. |
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