Path of Exile and p2w

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Your thinking is partially correct. A misnomer is an incorrect word for a given definition.

That is exactly what a term like p2w is. It's an incorrect name for its actual definition, but people don't realize that and keep using the name in their arugments without realizing the definition is different. The blackboard example came straight from the merriam dictionary.

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yamface wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Your thinking is partially correct. A misnomer is an incorrect word for a given definition.

That is exactly what a term like p2w is. It's an incorrect name for its actual definition, but people don't realize that and keep using the name in their arugments without realizing the definition is different. The blackboard example came straight from the merriam dictionary.

What are you even talking about? I see no definition in Merriam-Webster which insists that blackboards are necessarily black. I suppose if you were trying to draw a metaphor to make fun of literalists on pay2win (much like subjective_reality just did), you would have a point, but you seem to be arguing the opposite side of that.

In any case, what term would you use for "Pay to remove pain points and other inconveniences which cost players time?"

Most people would use the term "p2w" to describe this situation, but you are calling that a misnomer, so you presumably have another term in mind instead.

Please share the "actual definition" you refer to above, for which you claim "pay2win" is a misnomer.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I see no definition in Merriam-Webster which insists that blackboards are necessarily black.

I think you're misunderstanding what I said. The blackboard example was to just highlight that it doesn't have to be black. The name is what throws people off. Just like p2w, they think it all has to do with "winning". A more accurate description is "pay-to-ingame-advantage".

A fellow guildy put it very nice:

Two twins with identical abilities start playing POE on fresh accounts. One guy gets fancy outfit mtx, the other nothing. Who beats uber elder first? Who knows, it's all up to rng.

Same case as above, the one gets 4 quad tabs and all special tabs. Who beats uber elder first? I would say the guy with extra tabs has a definite advantage. He will spend less time juggling currencies and sorting loot, and more time killing stuff and leveling. He can save those 2-5c items early league and get currency to buy gear faster.

PoE is P2W, but not too much. Maybe a more correct term is PFA - Pay For Advantages.

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subjective_reality wrote:

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

I think the biggest point everyone loses sight of is - what do you "win" in Path of Exile?

Irrelevant because paytowin is used to describe paid advantages rather than winning the game. MMORPG's for example consists of a loop of sandbox activity rather than having any set "win" condition. Does this mean that paytowin cannot exist in a MMORPG? EA would certainly agree.

Even if the strawman "winning" argument was to be taken seriously, it would mean that even the most blatant paytowin mechanics could not be rightfully called paytowin anymore. To further attack your pointless strawman (for fun), one could for example say the peer competition is a human trait (which is true) and in that sense you are in a competitive social sense "winning" as your paid advantages holds a subjective social value which can then be equated to competitive progression, aka social victory :)

In the end the design does fall under the paytowin label because it allows you to circumvent painful game systems by purchasing microtransactions. This is not much different than paying for something as basic as an xp boost.

Lol holey moley, you just made my previous point better than I could have ever imagined.

You guys are deep down the rabbit hole. Good luck!

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

you just made my previous point better than I could have ever imagined.

You have a strawman, not a point.

Pah .. terminology.

Fact is it's a great game with pretty much the most fair micro transaction based business model out there and that's all there is to it.

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dyneol wrote:

Pah .. terminology.

Fact is it's a great game with pretty much the most fair micro transaction based business model out there and that's all there is to it.

Well said.

If I'm being completely honest, playing the game with just four stash tabs with all the content and items the game has to offer you (at least for me) wasn't cutting it anymore I was losing space and patience. I saw the stash tab sale going on and I caved, bought additional stash tabs and my gameplay experience has been 100x better.

No longer did I have to dedicate one tab to currency. Others to valuable unique's or leveling items if I wanted to create more characters. Admittedly I was a hoarder and would save all my level 20 gems on additional characters just for storage because I didn't have the space.

No longer was trading a pain in the ass (I didn't want to spam trade channel all day long nor was I going to create a post in the forum just to move items.)

I still need to purchase additional stash tabs for my maps, fragments and essences and then I'm all set. If anything, I would say having additional tabs is paying for convenience 100%. I couldn't go back to having just four tabs. I absolutely need more stash tabs to trade efficiently.

I justified my purchase of additional stash tabs because

1) I absolutely love this game. It's my favorite game to come home and play.
2) A small portion was because at the time GGG was an indie studio doing their best to create the best game ever and I felt because I enjoyed the game for so long I also wanted to support them.

P2W? (pay to win) Nope...
P4C (pay for convenience) definitely

Only way I could coin it is paying for convenience or Quality of life, you can use all the analogies and strawman or blackboard arguments you wish but in effect buying tabs etc... is purely a QoL gain

Then again it's a damn good game so why not support it with a lil mtx