EA killed for "Surprise Mechanics", TencentGGG slides on "Mystery Box". How?

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subjective_reality wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

And I can probably link you to several channels not giving a damn, because they're OK with PoE's monetization model.

How is that relevant? Paytowin is generally accepted if the grinds needed to access the paid advantages are reasonable. It's not like paytowin automatically deems a game as garbage. Paytowin is common and we gladly fund these mechanics until it reaches a threshold. That threshold has over time gotten lower and lower due to new types of methods to nickel and dime players.

While POE decides to paywall the stash tabs, the diminishing return, price and updates makes them a more acceptable type of paytowin. People tend to treat stash tabs as the initial cost of the game but that doesn't make them any less of a paytowin mechanics.

You choosing to not accept this is nothing but denial.

Actually, refusing to accept that a term does not have a set definition is denial.

But, that aside, suppose I concede your definition of p2w and we accept that PoE is p2w. Why is that important to you? Is it a moral stand? Will you stop playing? Will you contact your elected officials in an all out effort to stop this scourge? Or is it more important we just accept your definition of p2w?

Guys, come on.

Is buying stash tabs, which can only be obtained with real money, a means to accelerate your ability to play in a non SSF trade environment?

Yes, yes it is.

Does anybody actually complain and / or vocally care about this other than to state the fact that it is slightly "P2W"? (I hate using the term because it sounds far too harsh for the situation, but nobody has coined a softer term yet so go figure.)

No, not on a regular basis.


In short, you pay for an advantage, but the community as a whole accepts it.


I'm forever amused that nobody ever seems to put across this viewpoint, and people get stuck in one of two camps that creates a loop because they are BOTH right.

Person 1: Stash tabs are p2w.

Person 2: But they don't provide that much of an advantage.

Person 1: Yes but they are still p2w.

Person 2: Yeah but the advantage they give isn't that big.

Repeat ad infinitum.

Since this is my thread, I think a 18 page brief TL:DR summary is warranted.


1. Loot boxes are bad, maybe GGG's are better than awful, but not by much.

2. PoE isnt P2W, but we can concede there is paid qol. (I personally dont think qol = winning, but I suppose there is an argument here)

One of the main attraction of PoE is the fact that it is Free to play.

Having to spend money for in-game QoL, even if they are considfered by some as "Not important/mandatory" makes the Free to Play aspect starting to be inaccurate.

This is why the idea of P2W is important. A free to Play with P2W or paid QoL is the same as paying 50$-80$ for a full Arpg with those features already in the game.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

tbh I wish this thread would just die, along with loot boxes lol

What is dead may never die.

I agree with you from a principle standpoint.

There are three extenuating points that makes GGG's lootboxes bearable/tolerable:

1) Everything in them WILL be released after a while.
2) The probability of getting what you want is clear.
3) It's ONLY cosmetics.

So:

1b) You can just wait if there's something you want.
2b) You know what you're getting yourself into.
3b) You do not need anything, and it has no impact on gameplay.

When it comes to Stash Tabs it's more or less the same thing. Some call them P2W, other don't. What makes them bearable/tolerable by (a lot) of the community, is:

1) They are pretty cheap ($3 dollars a pop)
2) They don't provide more "power" the more you buy, aka diminishing returns
3) One time purchase; They stay with you forever, so it's not like you "P2W" every league to get ahead of others

Should GGG stop selling Mystery Boxes? Probably. Should GGG offer at least one Premium Stash Tab in addition to the four you got? Probably. But to compare GGG to badguys like EA or Supercell is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in here.

I don't "concede" absolute nothing, keep me aside of this "we"

paying for qol is plain bad when so many egocentrical roleplayers here act as if they are better than most of the time.

earn your things by playing the game not opening your wallet.

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Xystre wrote:

earn your things by playing the game not opening your wallet.

And GGG should earn their money how? Just cosmetic stuff you make fun of?

Understand me correctly here; it's not like PoE is an AAA title, developed and published and then put on "maintenance mode" with the occasional patch. They aggressively put out tons of content every three months. It's not like PoE is comparable to Valve's DotA 2 or Riot's LoL with ten, twenty, thirty times the player base PoE has got.

You seem you really hate to F2P monetization model. You are allowed to, but seems to misunderstand its basics.

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Phrazz wrote:

And GGG should earn their money how? Just cosmetic stuff you make fun of?

DFO is making money and there is no QoL gated behind a paid wall. You can get extra stuff using money, but its never needed for a better game experience. Which is the case right now with PoE

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Funinyourgame wrote:

DFO is making money and there is no QoL gated behind a paid wall. You can get extra stuff using money, but its never needed for a better game experience. Which is the case right now with PoE

I don't know what DFO is. Googling it, I'm assuming you're talking about Dungeon Fighter Online.

Can you explain to me what the Neo Premium Contract is? Also found this quote on the steam forums:

"

alright, to be mor on point whether dfo is p2w or not is pretty subjective, it depends on ur definition of p2w since some people will definitely say its p2w since throwing alot of money into dfo gives u a better chance at getting the better stuff earlier but that doesnt mean u wont ever get the good stuff without paying, u just take longer

"throwing alot of money into dfo gives u a better chance at getting the better stuff earlier"

Look, F2P games has to make money. If PoE had some kind of "boost" system for sale, it would be FAR more P2W than it "is" now. I don't know DFO, so I had to google it to know what the hell you're talking about, so if any information I found is wrong, I'm sorry.

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Phrazz wrote:

gives u a better chance at getting the better stuff earlier

That might be true, but PoE does the same with currency tab. The more currency you can hold, to better chance of getting better stuff earlier AND later.

The Neo Prenium thing is often given for free during week-ends and for returning players (1 month of not playing If I recall)

None of those are QoL improvement and not much P2W since you can progress at a very nice pace and your build is not tied to your gears or the amount of currency you can have. Unless you want to lable any kind of advantage as P2W, regardless of how little they are.

DFO has very little P2W that are not usefull to casual or hard playing fans (Maybe to streamers or full-time no-life players)
PoE has very important, to a point to be mandatory, paid QoL.
Both as cosmetics you can buy

I'd rather nor pay for QoL if possible.