To everyone whos scared of power creep

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Funinyourgame wrote:

You are aware that it requires 200-299 depth delve and 66 chaos worth of Fusing to get one w/o rng involved? 6 SOCKETS are easy to find, but 6 link is still very hard and out of reach to many.

you are aware that you can buy them for mere chaos orbs.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

The suggestion is a simple way for people to get some constant source of Chaos w/o, again, RNG involved. Doing recipes would still be more efficient, but having both would just be better for every one.

Also I'm slightly confused. Are you agreeing about the power creep issue or you are trying to justify the why the game its in a good state right now?

...what?

I am well aware on how to get to the shaper. I never went there cause I was never able to get the maps before the end of any league, best I can get to is Yellow maps.

What I'm suggesting is not "Remove Shaper" or "Make Shaper runs cheap". By all means make it as generous as you want. What I am suggesting is to be able to enjoy part of the end game boss/mechanics, similar to the Elder with White/Yellow/Red/Uber Shaper boss and give a small reward of a Chaos orb OR a unique item from a specific list when you defeat a WHITE shaper.

Care to explain how those two idea would break anything in the game?
It wouldn't overflow the market
"Powercreeps" would still get their way with Uber bosses.
People who don't have much time could enjoy some of the end game content without needing to farm boring stuff or play meta if they don't want.
It would make most people happy without changing everything related to mapping and end game

...seriously?

you can't make it to red maps... and you blame time.

you want more shaper bases/items to drop (and guaranteed) and guaranteed chaos orbs and you ask this?

i mean, it wouldn't "break" the game since the game already has been watered down tremendously. it's just insulting that people want it watered down even more.

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robmafia wrote:

...seriously?

you can't make it to red maps... and you blame time.

you want more shaper bases/items to drop (and guaranteed) and guaranteed chaos orbs and you ask this?

i mean, it wouldn't "break" the game since the game already has been watered down tremendously. it's just insulting that people want it watered down even more.

You are misunderstanding or I badly written what I wish.
I am not talking about more shaper based items, I'm talking low tier uniques OR 1 Chaos orbs per white shaper.


When I said "Make it as generous as you want" was simply because

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

Considering that I've gotten the boots on my last 4 shaper kills, I'm apparently only guaranteed a chaos for the full version.

Who mistakenly assumed I was talking about reducing a Full shaper run to a single chaos orb instead of the standard reward.

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robmafia wrote:

it's just insulting that people want it watered down even more.

So you are telling me that my solution of making tiered difficulty for everyone to enjoy the game is insulting?
How so? It doesn't remove the regular powerful version or reduce the end-game content, it just add more to the game.

*whoooooooooooosh*

you're asking for the shaper (and presumably, the guardians) to activate on white and yellow maps. and you also want them to have guaranteed drops of some sort.

Yes and no
Mostly have the same mechanics as a white/yellow Elder mechanics (guardians included)
The reward would be at least 1 Chaos. One could still get bad loot RNG, but at least there would 1 chaos to loot so it doesn't feel like a complete waste of time to do a White shaper in early mapping.

...how do you not realize that you're circling RIGHT BACK into "you want more shaper bases/items to drop (and guaranteed) and guaranteed chaos orbs and you ask this?," which you denied?

Why are you fixating on adding all of those and and add plurals everywhere.

ONE chaos orb OR ONE unique in a specific list that isn't related to shaper. There is lots on cheap low tier unique to choose from.

*whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh*

...and this is something that will happen once? ffs, guardians would be run before shaper, so we're looking at 5 bosses.

5 is not 1.

5 is plural.

additionally, unless you're implying that this would be a one-time thing... we're talking about plural.

additionally, you mentioned an item POOL, which contains... more than one item, by definition.

wtf, man.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

I must say that people who claim there is or isn't a power creep are forcefully ignoring the RNG involved and how RNG impact the value of everything (In a bad way)

Not regarding the core-gameplay and progression, actually the other way around. Major rebalancing is necessary to get both RNG to a positive degree, as well as trivializing content to a minimum degree.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

Now in synthesis I manage to get 2 Ex, 3 items that I can sold for over 30 chaos, I found 2 tabula which one of them I corrupted for a 46% inc damage.

Nice, I hope you got the second Tabula during the leveling stage, before you've simply farmed up a 6-link. Otherwise it's only useful for a secondary character, the defensive options for any regular chest are better. Also, Tabula is a Divine Orb, so a nice extra income early on.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

And that is the problem. Lets say you need a 6-link, you can't sacrifice your body because you'll be too squishy. What are you gonna do? Spend at least 6 Chaos Cheap right, indeed it is, but that is regardless of the wpn so if you need a specific wpn, it can go very high, very fast. But what if you want only 1 item with a build-enable effect. Like Fenumus weave? you just need the Aspect of spider and the increase ailement? 20 chaos for the lowest amount just because of the rarity of the item and the ES meta.

That example is just wrong on so many levels, you've missed it completely. It shows how bad GGG does its work on showing people how to progress a character in-game.
As for the 6-link. You don't need one for a while, and even if you do, there are plenty of divination card available which can be target-farmed fairly quickly, providing the needed 6-link there.
Also I literally don't know any even remotely meta-build which is supposed to have any build enabling uniques. By now most rares to the trick more then well, only very special effects and game-mechanics need the majority of uniques by now, making a build far more comfortable. Viability is reached before that by far.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

So the real problem is not the Power Creep, but the RGN involved for doing all content, not really succed in it, but simply trying it.
As a whole (gamers everywhere) we disagree about paying to get content, why are most of you ok for content to be locked behind a RNG/Grinding wall?

It's about the amount of work versus reward. Too little RNG in a looter game and you'll have the same issue as Guild Wars 2. Nice gameplay, boring loot. Too much and you'll have the issue of being overwhelmed, this is PoE's problem. The solution is to drizzle the available mods slowly into gameplay along the line, not force all of them towards the player at the same time.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

A great example of what I found to be Fun. Atziri
You have a weak version and a Uber Version, Elder? Same thing
Why don't we have the same for all End-game boss? White map with White shaper/elder easy for all and when you have all white maps completed there is a Zana quest to go to Yellow maps and so on.

One word: Lore. Also it makes for a bad game-design, those bosses wouldn't be 'unique' to their respective place anymore. I'm all for more intermediary bosses with interesting mechanics along the line. Oh... we got that already! Right! Just those are free-kills by now and not interesting at all because of it.

Also Elder is in all 3 map-types since you're just pushing him away, not killing him until the uber-elder fight.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

Wouldn't having that make everyone happy? You could give a Chaos orb drop every White shaper/elder kill or a radom unique from a specific list. It wouldn't break the economy and make it less tedious to Farm/Grind. People with less time could still get something and those 1% players that creates meta/race through content wouldn't see any change in there way of playing.

If you need a guaranteed chaos orb drop in a boss... that's fairly pitiful. Roll your maps properly and you'll receive more then plenty for the investment. You literally can't map a loss while mapping.
Also, currency return in a T16 and T1 map are the same, as are div cards. Tier is only relevant to ilvl and exp.

Also, same for using the chaos recipe: It's a waste of space and time. You'll pick up more then 1c worth easily by the time you've collected and sold the set to a vendor. That's an issue, it was a good recipe once upon a time.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

You are aware that it requires 200-299 depth delve and 66 chaos worth of Fusing to get one w/o rng involved? 6 SOCKETS are easy to find, but 6 link is still very hard and out of reach to many.

Wrong, you lack knowledge. Tabula is the first 6L. Then div cards from maps. Atziri's vault drops them in masses as well.
Not knowing any of the options to get one is a simple lack of knowledge, by the time you reach 200 depth you should've easily farmed up 20 6L via div cards if you're target farming them.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

The suggestion is a simple way for people to get some constant source of Chaos w/o, again, RNG involved. Doing recipes would still be more efficient, but having both would just be better for every one.

Currency is easier to get then ever. Guaranteed exalted shards, easy methods to get 100c/hour guaranteed, you just have to know them. Read up on how to properly farm things. If you're lacking the ability to farm simple chaos orbs... then truyl you won't even ever see shaper. Not because you're lacking skill but simple knowledge.

How to get C:

Delve side tunnels, easy to use when reaching lvl 80-85.
Simply running alch&go maps, clearing as fast as possible.
Selling items and div cards.
Nexus runs.
Upgrading all maps without decent div card drops until they do, then running them.
Running low-tier maps with high pack size and quant. Once again, alch&go, upgrading the poorly rolled ones 3 to 1.

It's literal childs play to farm up currency.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

I am well aware on how to get to the shaper. I never went there cause I was never able to get the maps before the end of any league, best I can get to is Yellow maps.

There's only a few options available how that happens, and it's fairly obvious as to why: Your build sucks. Here's a few simple options where you went wrong and what you got to change:

Gear:
-You're running on a 4L, why? Take a Tabula.
-Switch over to life, ES is only viable with CI or shav's as a beginner, you don't have the flat ES amount to run decently though.
-Your Winter-Orb setup is not properly set-up. Instead of Faster Casting take Efficacy.
-Craft a crystal belt properly, you got now bonus for chest ES on it, that's a craft with a Dense Fossil.
-You got no defensive setup, do a Cast of damage taken/immortal call/increased duration setup somewhere.
-Why so many curses? Those don't stack, you got a limit of 1 besides your chest.
Your chest is not relevant to a Winter-Orb build, pick another one.
- Why a staff? Take 2 wands, more damage and proper setup for good gems. Or sceptres if you want to go cold to fire conversion.
- Your rings are bad for the level, pick some proper res rings.
- Your amulet is bad for your level, pick a proper res + dex amulet.
- Your Flask setup is utter garbage: 1 life flask, 1 speed flask, cinderscorn, atziri flask, 40% damage/wise oak and later on dying sun.

Passive:
Pick the duration nude at Scion, mandatory for Winter Orb.
Remove crit nodes, pick Elemental Overload instead.
Remove Snowforged, Pick Lucidity instead, should be obvious.
Remove Doomcaster and Hex Master.
Remove Corruption and Whispers of Doom.
Pick: Elemental Focus, Coldhearted Assault, Lethal Assault, Fangs of the Viper, Coordination...

I'll stop here. Your build is utter garbage. Look up a build-guide for Winter Orb and follow it. First get a feel for the game then complain. You neither got defense nor offense.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

Care to explain how those two idea would break anything in the game?
It wouldn't overflow the market
"Powercreeps" would still get their way with Uber bosses.
People who don't have much time could enjoy some of the end game content without needing to farm boring stuff or play meta if they don't want.
It would make most people happy without changing everything related to mapping and end game

It makes the bosses not unique anymore for their space. Also what would you suggest are the drops? Shaper and Elder are supposed to be rewarding, they wouldn't be anymore, their extremely valuable drops would be common gear. Not intended. That's how it's broken.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

You are misunderstanding or I badly written what I wish.
I am not talking about more shaper based items, I'm talking low tier uniques OR 1 Chaos orbs per white shaper.

Literal waste of time, In 2 hours I get 1 quad tab full of crap uniques. Chaos orbs are 20-30 pure drops per hour. That's common, base-game. You don't have that because you made bad decisions.

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Funinyourgame wrote:

So you are telling me that my solution of making tiered difficulty for everyone to enjoy the game is insulting?
How so? It doesn't remove the regular powerful version or reduce the end-game content, it just add more to the game.

He's right, it's insulting. You don't know the base mechanics of the game and propose changes. You don't even know how the game feels when done halfway decent, sure you'll complain. First reach at least a 'mediocre' level rather then an 'utterly garbage' level, then we can start talking. It's not meant as an insult, you just lack proper experience.