To everyone whos scared of power creep

This "only 1% reach endgame" is the most stupid interpretation of a statistic I have ever seen.

PoE is f2p, that means a lot of people will try it out every new league.
-Some of them simply don't like it.
-Some of them find it too complex (something not to be confused with actual content difficulty) or too grindy or too boring.
-Some of them don't like dying and rage quit when their build is not that good, instead of trying to fix it.

Some people read this statistic as "all PoE players actually engage with the game, try to understand it's mechanics, but only 1% reaches endgame". Yes, the learning curve could be better. Actually if PoE had less things in it (less skills, less crafting mechanics, less mods), could be simpler for new players while at the same time have better depth and structure.
This has nothing to do with endgame difficulty. Once a player understands the game, he can trivialize red maps with 1ex gear. That's a fact. You can't balance around new players that use 4 active skills with 2 links in each.

RPG's are not meant to be played by everyone. Not in some elitist sense, or because they are too difficult, but because they shine when they focus on one thing instead of trying to please everyone. You can't combine Witcher and D:OS. Yes some people will like both, but each for its own style. Watching the GDC video, I get the sense that this tactic of spiking the numbers every 3 months by adding new crazy stuff, might prove catastrophic for the quality of the game in the long run. Maybe PoE is not meant to be played by 150k people but by 50k.

As for super powerful builds with gear that's really hard to craft or get, obviously they should exist. But the thing is to keep a proper structure in the game. Easy to gear builds should always have a low ceiling while really powerful builds should always require time and effort. That way you have a reason to engage with trading and crafting apart from looking it as a goal by itself.

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Fruz wrote:

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

I'm playing one of the most basic meta builds imaginable (life elementalist WOrb), and I've hit a brick wall because I don't have enough HP to stop myself from being one-shot by the Minotaur Guardian and I can't dodge consistently enough or deal damage fast enough to kill him anyways

In short, you didn't build your character properly enough (pretty much 0 defensive utility flask for example), but the power creep still allowed you to crush everything until this point ...
And now you hit a wall all at once, it isn't progressive, it isn't gradual.


Power creep is amazing, isn't it ?

(not saying that your char is super bad, just that it's not optimized, so one of the highest boss is kicking your butt, which likely should have happened before if it wasn't for the power creep)

Actually I should work on my flasking; I honestly have no idea what I'm doing there and it's something I should improve on. But this "brick wall" problem has occurred with every build I've played thus far - some boss fights are in large part gear checks (although PoE's devs have gotten a lot better, it's still really hard to avoid taking brutal hits from some of these bosses), and my build just isn't good enough. It's happened with every build I've ever made, regardless of how good the guide to making them is.

Maybe I just suck. It's possible! But I've got over 800 hours under my belt, I look up guides, I try to understand things, and I play this game all the time. But I find it hard to believe that I'm significantly worse than the "average" player, y'know?

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

This feels like yet another extremely silly thing to complain about. The "power creep" we see is, by and large, entirely reserved for the kind of people who can reasonably afford to get, well, whatever they want. The guys who have 10ex+ by the end of the first day in a new league (side note - jesus fucking christ how the fuck does that work?!).

Flipping currency. Also the issue isn't only present with expensive items, strong affixes spiraling a character out of control start at ilvl 75. That's very affordable.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

I'm playing one of the most basic meta builds imaginable (life elementalist WOrb), and I've hit a brick wall because I don't have enough HP to stop myself from being one-shot by the Minotaur Guardian and I can't dodge consistently enough or deal damage fast enough to kill him anyways. The next real upgrades for my build are all in the multiple ex range, and I'm over level 90 so I'm not hitting any more major upgrades any time soon. And as people keep pointing out, Winter Orb is basically "easy mode" for this game; it's an absolutely nutty skill and very easy to use.

That's what I'm talking about. Not knowing how to properly build a character. I've taken a look at your build:
Did you buy those bubonic and inpulsa? If so, you've messed up. Inpulsa is the last item to buy for progression, instead of this and buponic all of those should've come earlier:

Threw that crap Doryani away, that should've gone starting red maps already. Instead pick a wand with 20% ele as extra chaos, craft cold as extra chaos on it. First major upgrade.
Do that a second time, dual-wielding for Winter-Orb is far stronger, you'll see why if you read on.
Craft a belt with Pristine + Prismatic + Frigid, gives life, res, damage.
Buy a ring with warlord's mark on hit, cheap one is enough.
Shaper's mark is fairly nice as well, around 100% inc damage + extra effects, Best in Slot.
Get an amulet with non-chaos as extra chaos, another major upgrade.

Abyss jewels for Winter orb aren't optimal, unless you get near perfect ones. Switch them either out for 46+ life ones, or use normal jewels with %life on them, they are better to scale the build, you already got enough flat damage from the gem-setup itself, you want to scale it up.

Also:
The Exceptional performance node is not the best choice. I know, the guide tells you so, but the guide is wrong there.
Instead, use the 7 points after the large life-cluster for Herbalism + the jewel slot there. Switch back when you get the jewel for the slot near Exceptional performance.
Get rid of Ash, Frost and Storm, instead pick Fangs of the Viper (very strong! 20% on the extra chaos, that's massive) and the jewel slot there as well.

So, your build as-is... is simply badly made, you choose wrong, that's why it's crap.
All those upgrades together should cost... 3 ex? At max? Well, besides the Shaper's touch, but that's the last of all those things to do.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

At the end of the day, if you're the kind of person affected by this "power creep" - if you can afford to craft those perfect Onslaught Move Speed implicit boots, if you can afford to craft that +7 gem level bow, if you understand the mechanics and play constantly enough to get access to all the best shit - then your difficulty in playing the game is entirely determined by you. You could trivialize the content with your +7 gem level bow and shaped quiver, or you could... not. You're complaining that a game you've completely mastered is "too easy" when you take every step you can to make it easier for yourself. Want a bigger challenge? Use a substandard build. Use substandard gear. Opt for the 6L Atziri's Disfavour and Cyclone instead of the 6L +7 Bow and Arc. Go life instead of ES.

The discussion isn't about mirror-tier items, it's about mods which come during progression. -res on helmet (fossil craft), damage as extra chaos (elder/shaper base), craftable crit-multi, double-damage, over-time multiplier... and so on. Those can be used fairly early, none of them is end-game.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

But the rest of us? The literally 99% of players who struggle with or never reach endgame content? This power creep is unlikely to ever reach us, and is a gigantic boon when it does.

Make the changes I told you and it suddenly reached you, worst-case sell inpulsa and do those, you'll see the difference. Minotaur is free-kill, besides Hydra the easiest one available.

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Kulze wrote:

<Lots of very good advice>

Thanks! So as to avoid dragging this further off topic I'm just gonna respond here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2484268

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Actually I should work on my flasking; I honestly have no idea what I'm doing there and it's something I should improve on. But this "brick wall" problem has occurred with every build I've played thus far - some boss fights are in large part gear checks (although PoE's devs have gotten a lot better, it's still really hard to avoid taking brutal hits from some of these bosses), and my build just isn't good enough. It's happened with every build I've ever made, regardless of how good the guide to making them is.

Maybe I just suck. It's possible! But I've got over 800 hours under my belt, I look up guides, I try to understand things, and I play this game all the time. But I find it hard to believe that I'm significantly worse than the "average" player, y'know?

Well, I do believe that if there was not that much power creep, you would have had difficulties earlier and the progression would be smoother in this regard.

You can't be 'worse' than the average joe, I mean ... you reached Minotaur so lol.


This fight is pretty mechanical anyway, you're not just supposed to facetank it unless you are very tanky.
You need lightning warp to move around the Arena after you've significantly damaged him too.

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Jdahl22 wrote:

This "only 1% reach endgame" is the most stupid interpretation of a statistic I have ever seen.

PoE is f2p, that means a lot of people will try it out every new league.
-Some of them simply don't like it.
-Some of them find it too complex (something not to be confused with actual content difficulty) or too grindy or too boring.
-Some of them don't like dying and rage quit when their build is not that good, instead of trying to fix it.

Some people read this statistic as "all PoE players actually engage with the game, try to understand it's mechanics, but only 1% reaches endgame". Yes, the learning curve could be better. Actually if PoE had less things in it (less skills, less crafting mechanics, less mods), could be simpler for new players while at the same time have better depth and structure.
This has nothing to do with endgame difficulty. Once a player understands the game, he can trivialize red maps with 1ex gear. That's a fact. You can't balance around new players that use 4 active skills with 2 links in each.

RPG's are not meant to be played by everyone. Not in some elitist sense, or because they are too difficult, but because they shine when they focus on one thing instead of trying to please everyone. You can't combine Witcher and D:OS. Yes some people will like both, but each for its own style. Watching the GDC video, I get the sense that this tactic of spiking the numbers every 3 months by adding new crazy stuff, might prove catastrophic for the quality of the game in the long run. Maybe PoE is not meant to be played by 150k people but by 50k.

i could stand up and clap u right now if i could use my both hands.
u have my gratitude and respect for understanding this game that i love. its a rare accation for someone to see poe for what it is.

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alhazred70 wrote:

1% of the player base kills end game bosses.

Power creep might suck for the 1% but I doubt the other 99% are worried too much. My guess is GGG knows they can't ignore the fact that 80% of the players never progress past yellow maps (and only 70% into white maps). (numbers taken from GGG public statements from the past two years, mostly Chris on podcasts)

They have been unflinchingly and intentionally creeping the power of the players forward since Ascendancy. Wether you like that or not I seriously doubt they are going to pump the brakes when the people complaining that the game is too easy are always people playing meta builds and OP skills. OR The Project PT's of the community I.e. the unapologetic Masochists.

Currently playing Life based Melee phys only gladiator.. feels like I'm going to hit THE USUAL brick wall when i get to red maps on it, Vortex Cold snap was a faceroll... ofc it was. Stop using other peoples meta-gaming (which literally means someone else gamed the game for you and gave you the solutions) and the game doesn't feel easy at. fucking. all.

Am I defending Power creep? Sorta? Kinda? Yeah I guess... I recognize that it sucks to make the game easier for Mathil, and people like him that can make 5k life do Uber elder where I fail on 9k life. But I also recognize that the "sweet spot" the right balance of letting at least a high percentage of players using a good percentage of well made builds; feel powerful and have fun playing is still FAR FROM WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW.

Do a 300+ delve on a life based melee* build and then come tell us how trivial the game is and how power creep has ruined it. The truth is though they really aren't best served catering only to the 1% only the people who meta game and RMT their way to 50 exalts worth of gear (which lets face it is POE's dirty little secret).

inb4 the 1% insert their stories about how they downed Uber elder with 5 alchs of gear and 2 linked Vigilant Strike using a white Driftwood Sceptre.

* as always by melee I mean actual melee

In a recent presentation Chris Wilson says it is around 10%; and they are perfectly happy with that 10/90 split AND are actively designing the game with that in mind.

Which, I guess, supports your point. I guess? You are all over the place a bit.

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Currently playing Life based Melee phys only gladiator.. feels like I'm going to hit THE USUAL brick wall when i get to red maps on it,

well, that's just dumb and/or you're gimping yourself... that said, it should still be pretty easy.

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Do a 300+ delve on a life based melee* build and then come tell us how trivial the game is

i did that during delve league. and i complained about power creep/how easy it was then, too.

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Scherge wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

right.

it makes sense to balance the game around the players that know the least about it.

poe 2019.

That is not what i said.

Nor is it what I said... I'm not sure why that guy is using the word "knowledge" perhaps he just wants to feel superior in lue of an actual argument?

It takes zero game knowledge to faceroll content using someone elses meta gaming. Or tons of currency from the other prime way to trivialize content.

Personally I would say I am extremely knowledgeable about the game I'm just not one of the 1% that finds it totally easy, partially because I don't use other peoples meta gaming to make it easy. I also have absolute garbage RNG. And I'm not Mathil in the "don't get hit" department.

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alhazred70 wrote:

Personally I would say I am extremely knowledgeable about the game[...] I also have absolute garbage RNG.

This is very ironic ("I have absolute garbage RNG" itself is enough to show that you are not "extremely knowledgeable about the game" at all).