We need an auction house

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

"

Außenseiter wrote:

That's my point.
Try not using currency stash.
Like at all.
Only use default 4 tabs, and see how comfortable will be your journey through Wraeclast.
We all know it won't.

I'm pretty sure you start with enough points, as a new player, to buy a currency tab. If you don't spend it on said tab or extra tabs, I'm afraid that's on you. :P

Ok I don't honestly remember if I had any coins when I started the game, it was 7 goddamn years ago.
How much are you given? Can you afford both currency tab and map tab? Because at least those two are essential if you don't want to pull your hair out while managing atlas influence.
I'd argue frag tab as well, but eh, frags are not THAT important.

i'm amazed* that this thread is still going after all the backpedaling/evasion.

*not really.

You just throw fallacies and random internet links around.
I don't want to accuse you of anything, since I don't have any proof, but at this point I'm convince that you're just botter trying to defend your little playing field.
But maybe I'm paranoid and you just lack education and try to defend the game you like.

I also like this game and I want it to become better.
And to become better it needs automated trading system, that console players already enjoy in full.
Am I jelly? Yes I'm jelly, I want auction house too.

"

Außenseiter wrote:

You just throw fallacies and random internet links around.
I don't want to accuse you of anything, since I don't have any proof, but at this point I'm convince that you're just botter trying to defend your little playing field.
But maybe I'm paranoid and you just lack education and try to defend the game you like.

I also like this game and I want it to become better.
And to become better it needs automated trading system, that console players already enjoy in full.
Am I jelly? Yes I'm jelly, I want auction house too.

wow.

i provided a fact-based argument. even with a link to what price fixing ACTUALLY is.

in response, you accuse me of botting. immediately after saying you don't want to accuse me of anything. poe 2019.

if i was a botter, i'd LOVE an AH. i'd love to hear an explanation for how an automated trading system would be BAD for bots (ie: program that runs AUTOMATED tasks).

didn't like the ftc? ok. here it is from wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

"

robmafia wrote:

holy irony.

1. ACTUAL price fixing can happen with an AH (an AH would actually make it easier...)
2. you're just talking about fake listings.
3. bots would thrive

you (like 99% of those who play this, apparently) don't know what "price fixing" even means.

How the FK do you want to price fix anything with AH when literally anyone can come up and buy anything, anytime?

On the second page in THIS VERY THREAD you've got a guy that is arguing against the AH because.. he BELIEVES (as in - has nothing to back up his claim) that it would make all people sell items undervalued.

The guy above is right, you're obviously some troll or uneducated fool that doesn't know what he's talking about but still insist on sharing his "wisdom" with everyone. Perfect example of Kruger-Dunning effect.

Please, stop.

...you don't know what "price fixing" is, do you?

AGAIN - hint: COLLUSION IS A PRE-REQ.

and by "literally anyone," do you mean... bots? because bots aren't anyone.

"

robmafia wrote:

...you don't know what "price fixing" is, do you?

AGAIN - hint: COLLUSION IS A PRE-REQ.

and by "literally anyone," do you mean... bots? because bots aren't anyone.

And how exactly AH makes it easier for people to fix the prices than it is now? Collusion has nothing to do with one or the other trade mechanics.

There are people with different interests and with different time preference, so with AH there is no possibility for collusion among all the sellers and cartels are constantly under pressure of having to compete with normal offers, that are available 24/7

If anything - it is easier now to fix prices because you can ignore any request for trade and not all of the offers are available all the time (because they go offline with users) so it takes just one guy with his botnet at low pop. hours to manipulate the prices of many specific items.

Bot are now sniping, buying everything and reselling at 5x-10x price.

One guy can set 20 offers, observe how many requests for trade he gets and just wait for a naive player to hit the most pricey offer.

"

kentrylix wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

...you don't know what "price fixing" is, do you?

AGAIN - hint: COLLUSION IS A PRE-REQ.

and by "literally anyone," do you mean... bots? because bots aren't anyone.

And how exactly dAH makes it easier for people to set the prices than now?

...do you know what price fixing is?

it's hard (nearly impossible) to collude and fix prices in the current system because IT'S A BARTER SYSTEM.

with automation, all they need to do is make their collusion agreement and the AH itself literally can do the rest for them.

"

kentrylix wrote:

If anything - it is easier now because you can ignore any request for trade and not all of the offers are available all the time (because they go offline with users) so it takes just one guy with his botnet at low pop. hours to manipulate the prices of many specific items.

*facepalm*

THAT'S NOT PRICE FIXING. AGAIN, YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT FAKE LISTINGS. THIS IS BASICALLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT PRICE FIXING ACTUALLY IS.

my god. i posted two different citations. and keep mentioning "collusion." but nope, just a lot of herp derp about 'not trading.'

"

kentrylix wrote:

One guy can set 20 offers, observe how many requests for trade he gets and just wait for a naive player to hit the most pricey offer.

yeah, that's not price fixing. that's hoping someone will list/trade something low so you can flip it. AGAIN - this is basically the opposite of price fixing.

poe 2019 - argue but don't read! edition

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing

"

Price fixing is an agreement (written, verbal, or inferred from conduct) among competitors that raises, lowers, or stabilizes prices or competitive terms.

"

robmafia wrote:

*facepalm*

THAT'S NOT PRICE FIXING. AGAIN, YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT FAKE LISTINGS. THIS IS BASICALLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT PRICE FIXING ACTUALLY IS.

my god. i posted two different citations. and keep mentioning "collusion." but nope, just a lot of herp derp about 'not trading.'

Here is a definition from Wikipedia, read it:

Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand.

If you're a dumb then you're going to read it and understand it, literally.
If you've got a drop of intelligence, then you're going to look for differences in between the real life market and the market in this game and see what does it mean to "price fix", effectively, in this game.

The in-game barter system isn't a real market. On a real market offers don't expire whenever someone goes to sleep (offline).

On a real market one guy doesn't control both the production (ownership) and distribution of his own products, like in this game.

There is no need for collusion in this game, as the same guy can set-spam many offers from many different accounts to achieve exactly the effect that has been mentioned in the definition above. Or by having enough currency - buy everything and re-list at 10x price.

What other reason they're doing that other than to control supply and demand?

With AH in PoE there would be no possibility to collude, as price fixing in real life happens whenever there are only a couple of suppliers (mostly some sort of cartel or oligopoly) OR/AND when there are few global distribution chains that are rigged with exclusive deals with just one or a few suppliers, so they wouldn't give any access for competition to the market.

Here pretty much everyone has equal access to distribution, because its EXACTLY THE SAME CHANNEL - either PoE barter trade listings/pages or AH.

And you've got thousand of people playing the game and listing their offers through the same channel, not 2-3 sellers having 95% of the market or distribution network.

"

robmafia wrote:

yeah, that's not price fixing. that's hoping someone will list/trade something low so you can flip it. AGAIN - this is basically the opposite of price fixing.

poe 2019 - argue but don't read! edition

Yes, that's exactly what price fixing means in this game. Unless you're dumb as fk and you're comparing apples to oranges.