Path of Exile, Gameplay Criticism
" .........wow. you just made a "dismissive comment" about a subject that was deleted before you could even read it. ie: you don't know what it's even about, but you're dismissive, anyway. while suggesting to do the opposite. come on. btw, you also don't seem to know what *popcorn* means. hint: it's not dismissive.  re: gibbous i made a large response to you, but it was deleted. (lolz!) see page 20 for your answer, anyway. it was there before you even asked. in fact, it was the context for all of this, funny enough. [Removed by Support] "Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct." ...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz! Last edited by robmafia#7456 on Jan 22, 2019, 6:09:55 AM
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" But it's not really a ceiling. For example: (and I"ll try to stay impersonal and not give specific examples so my relatives aren't called pussies again ^^) I've seen players able to kill bosses and deadlier maps other higher level characters can't. I know this for a fact: because I have seen it. Higher level says a lot more about a player's determination and stamina to grind safer content and avoid risks than the quality of their build or the skill of their play to be honest. Last edited by Berylstone#2209 on Jan 22, 2019, 6:47:16 AM
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" I didn't see the post, but I assume you think it was deleted because you are a victim of mod incompetence again. It's hard to care, though. If you have something to say to me, say it in a civilized manner and it won't be deleted before I get a chance to read it. Remember what I said about own goals? I've said it three times now. You do know what an "own goal" is, right? Think about it. Or don't. Your loss if you choose not to. "(lolz!)" indeed. Wash your hands, Exile! Last edited by gibbousmoon#4656 on Jan 22, 2019, 8:07:32 AM
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" And that there is the problem. Mindless grinding is rewarded, and active engagement with genuinely challenging content is punished. It's all about affordances. And this game's affordances are utterly fucked. Wash your hands, Exile!
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" Which raises another question: Why aren't players who are willing and able to engage the most challenging content regularly the ones who are rewarded by that activity with the highest level? (It's fairly obvious they are not.) " Affordances are essentially an engineering and design problem. The classic example of an affordance is a cup handle. It shows you how to pick up your coffee cup without burning your fingers. There are zillions of other examples. Youtube has some informative videos on the subject if you want to a see an array of perspectives on this. In the context of game design, affordances tell the player what they need to do to "win." If you are punished by engaging the most challenging content (because the experience penalties for making a mistake while engaging this content are wildly skewed in relation to the amount of experience that content provides), then the game is teaching you NOT to engage challenging content. Good ARPG game design naturally funnels you into more and more challenging content, via specific affordances (rewards and penalties, both relative to risk). Current GGG game design often does the exact opposite. And that there is the problem that we've been dealing with for years now. Wash your hands, Exile!
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" That was a great explanation, thank you. And I agree with the last statement whole-heartedly. May your maps be bountiful, exile
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" Contrary to what a lot of people may post here, frustration caused by mistakes is something I find endearing with this game. The death penalty is just one layer of a many layered formula that pushes the player to evolve and overcome. Could they come up with a better system?, Maybe, but it will never be enough for the people who don't apricate why the frustration exists, and why it is important. Failure makes you stronger, unless you seek ways to push fault away from yourself and blame it on the system. As you stated, the more you get frustrated by the exp loss, the more you should come to realize that its simply another roadblock, and it is up to you to overcome it. gibbousmoon is right, imo, that there should be incentives to play harder content to achieve your goals, but in the end, it has always been about the frustration, and the will to overcome those things that make it so. |
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" Sure, there are things in life that are about frustration and not getting instant gratification is central even to development of a newborn -but the thing is, your description fails to actually tackle what is frustrating in one system and not so much on another one. Gibbousmoon talked about different player types. I think this is a key point into understanding why a system is either 'frustrating' or 'motivating'. I've already given both reasons why I dislike the current system and suggestion what to do about it, which is why I feel somewhat belittling to repeatedly read how 'succeeding in PoE is about overcoming frustration and willingness to work'. I am sure there is no ill will in your post. Such descriptions however fail to acknowledge why many people play video games in the first place, i.e. they are in fact outside prescriptions that do not fit their fellow human psychology. My proposal would be to make an option once character is about to level 90: whether character is turned into 'death fatigue' character with RL cooldown limitations of play upon death (and no XP loss) -or, if player chooses, staying in a game mode more similar to the current one (I would of course much rather play with Death Fatigue system and therefore not at all mind for example Mortalkombat's idea of making it possible for characters to also lose levels in this scenario, but it wouldn't be my personal worry anyways). Death fatigue would be a much more substantial way to prevent players from zerging through content but like said, it's all up to devs in the end. I hate regressive mechanics. It's not to say gameplay can't have any 'punishments' but in a time sink such as PoE already already is in it's own abyssal way, making character progression have regressive mechanics is a big f*ck u to my face. |
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It really feels like both sides are talking past each other at this point.
Maybe we could have both sides trying to explain through their words what they understand of the point of view of the other side (please, while remaining polite, non-condescending, and without sarcasm)? I think I do understand that there needs to be a penalty, in order for the game to not feel like a walk in the park. And, if that point is indeed part of the "pro-10%-penalty" point of view, then I do agree with at least that part. I think part of the pro-10 point of view is also "don't fix what ain't broken". Is that a fair assessment? If it is, then where we diverge is probably about whether the penalty is broken or not. In my case, it damaged my gaming experience to the point where I don't play the game anymore, so it does feel very broken. Is my understanding of those two points (which are not the only ones, I know, but let's go by small steps) correct, and does my point of view of those two points feel fair to you? |
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"Frustration motivates the strong and alienates the weak. Where you place yourself is up to you, but like I stated , its a system in a group of systems that progress you toward success. We can disagree on this, and that is perfectly fine. We do not invalidate each other, we simply disagree. What I think does not make me right outside of my own experiences, and so it is also true for you. Last edited by Xtorma#4606 on Jan 22, 2019, 1:26:47 PM
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