What nugiyen is doing right now is amazing

You could make a animation change on LA to make it seem like you pounded the ground with a melee weapon. Would that make it melee?

"

danonon wrote:

You could make a animation change on LA to make it seem like you pounded the ground with a melee weapon. Would that make it melee?

Not in my opinion.

Yeah i think everyone needs to differentiate what's aesthetically melee and what's mechanically melee.

"

Atraps003 wrote:

"

bhavv wrote:

Erm, melee = fighting within hand to hand weapon range.

Ranged = damaging anything ouside of a hand to hand weapons normal reach.

That's essentially what melee and ranged are.

If I hit you with a dagger in my hand, its melee. If I throw that dagger at you its ranged. If I stab my dagger in the ground and bolts of lightning fly out of it and across the map, its ranged.

So by your definition of a melee you can't AOE? You trolls make me laugh. Everything in this game has a range, yes even your auto-attack with a claw/dagger.

Why is everyone bringing up AoE? A skill being melee has nothing to do with how many targets it hits, and everything to do with its range.
You could have a skill where your character rapidly hits every target around him once (aka Zeal from D2) and it'd still be melee.

And by range we're obviously talking about range > range of your melee weapon. Anything that allows you to attack out of the melee range of enemies is a ranged ability.

"

EnderCN wrote:

Not using AE skills with melee is like saying witches suck because auto attack wand only builds aren't very good.

Again with the AoE...
No one's saying you shouldn't use AoE skills! The argument being made is that ranged skills like Lightning Strike, Ground Slam and now Cleave+increased AoE shouldn't be used to determine the state of balance in PoE of melee (or melee-weapon-range if you want) skills (such as Glacial Hammer, Infernal Blow, Viper Strike, etc.) and builds that revolve around them.
If the melee skill being added next patch is AoE and a melee-weapon-range skill and you can plan a character around it that can reliably kill enemies up in their faces then we're heading in the right direction. Even if it takes several patches to get there.

"

pneuma wrote:

"

Lyralei wrote:

I think nugi's choice was quite stellar. Nobody would have thought to amplify the range of cleave to ridiculous levels and draw all damage from elemental nodes. Maybe Inva, since he's our de-facto weird build guy.

Elecleave (including the aoe) has been around for ages. It's probably the oldest faceroll build that still exists in the game. Back in the day you would just pick up Avatar of Fire, and aoe passives were larger/more plentiful as well.

It wasn't until the massive elemental damage boosting patch (0.9.6?) that elemental attacks in general started to blow physical out of the water. This discrepancy has still not been recovered.

/poehistorian

This. I had a similar build with staff sweep on a Templar. Got boring due to it killing so fast, so deleted and rerolled.

"

Charan wrote:

"

Pinchyskree wrote:

Not impressive at all.

Using a skill with that range and trying to pass it off as melee to sound hard.

He played so much his body shakes, sacrificing health for a game, sad.

Cleave is still using the weapon's natural range. It is melee. You seem to have some sour graps going on there, but so be it.

...

Cleave does not use a weapon's natural range, in fact it is multiple times melee weapon range.

This, by definition, is NOT melee. Nugiyens achievements are impressive, but he is not doing it as a melee character.

see this post for official developer confirmation: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/230356#p1982393

.

"

Atraps003 wrote:

"

bhavv wrote:

"

kasub wrote:

What's up with people and their lousy definition of "true melee skills"? I like how someone claimed whirlwind is not melee when you have to go right on the target to hit them.

Sweep, cleave and leapslam are all definitely melee skills. Having a larger radius so you can kill more than one enemy does not suddenly make them ranged skills.

Erm, melee = fighting within hand to hand weapon range.

Ranged = damaging anything ouside of a hand to hand weapons normal reach.

That's essentially what melee and ranged are.

If I hit you with a dagger in my hand, its melee. If I throw that dagger at you its ranged. If I stab my dagger in the ground and bolts of lightning fly out of it and across the map, its ranged.

So by your definition of a melee you can't AOE? You trolls make me laugh. Everything in this game has a range, yes even your auto-attack with a claw/dagger.

Melee =/= Ranged =/= AoE.

Melee can be AoE
Ranged can be AoE
Melee cannot by ranged beyond the weapon's swing reach.

If you dont know what melee means, then stop being so obtuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melee

"

Use in gaming

"Melee" has been adopted and popularized as a term in war-gaming, board games, tabletop role-playing games and video games to encompass all close-quarter fighting and directly striking an opponent at ranges generally less than a few feet with, but not only, fists, feet, knives, rifle-butts or any other melee weapon or special spells or tactics with the intention of causing harm.

The term was first applied to games in H.G. Wells's 1913 Little Wars, where the author develops a "melee rule" in his war game. It was later popularized by Dungeons & Dragons, which featured a "melee phase" to represent the fighting of characters outside of bows and magic.

This term still applies to most role-playing games, but is often used in the context of first-person shooter video games to specify a non-ranged attack. This began with the 1992 game, Wolfenstein 3D, which featured a knife that could be selected from the inventory, just like a gun. Because of the risk involved in using a melee weapon, they were typically the most powerful weapons available, in terms of damage. Later, Duke Nukem 3D would include a button that allowed the character to kick enemies while still wielding a gun.

The idea of 'melee' combat in games is standing next to an opponent and swinging your weapon at it. You can swing at multiple opponents near you as cleave and sweep do in PoE, and this is still melee.

However, some people now think that cleave's additional range no longer makes it a melee attack as its attack reach extends beyond 'close-quarter fighting'.

The reason why 'melee' skills are not working in PoE is that you stand in range of the enemies melee attacks too. When the enemies can hit you, you die fast in this game because they deal too much damage on merciless and end game maps.

Think of all the slow zombies and skeletons that people like farming for EXP. They farm these using attacks that can safely kill them with additional range so that the slow moving enemies cannot strike back. If you actually tried standing right next to the opponents and hitting them with something like Dual Strike, you would die in a few hits with how much damage they deal. Especially the guards in Act 3 merc battlefront and barracks, those deal tremendous damage that will kill you in no time if you get too close to them.

It seems that GGG's proposed workaround to this issue was to increase the melee range at least for dualists so far, so rather than fixing the insane amount of damage dealt by the monsters, they just give 'melee' characters / builds an option to add extra range to their attacks so they can safely hit things without taking any hits back from the monsters.

This is basically a lazy workaround and means that 'melee' now becomes 'ranged' attacks instead.

"

Yogabba wrote:

"

bhavv wrote:

Leap slam / ground slam / lightning strike are not melee.

I have no idea who he is, but he isn't reaching the top of the ladder entirely through solo melee no matter how much he tries to fool you.

LOL he isn't using any of those abilities. He occasionally uses LS to escape a bad situation but he is elemental cleave.

You couldn't have made more of a fail post LOL!

Cleave is no longer a melee skill either. I will have to edit that post to add cleave to the list.

"

KingCalvin wrote:

wait just a minute. so when these guys think they are going to die, they close out the game? that's how you get to the top of the ladder. thats pretty lame hardcore.

You must be pretty new around here, because most Path of Exile players come from Diablo II, the creator of Hardcore. And in Diablo II, you could Alt-F4 to save your ass.

Alright then. What are you waiting for? Come play Hardcore!

That's right. You perfectly know that you won't be able to land that Alt-F4 when the split-second moment of truth arrives. You perfectly know that the moment you will start desyncing, you will panic, hit all your potions, unlike experienced Hardcore users who will either alt-f4 or instantly hit ENTER, type in /oos, and review the situation (alt-f4? potion and run? TP?), all within 1 sec of game-time. These are the reflexes that a Hardcore player needs, and few possess them.

I learned to Alt-F4 because I played Diablo II hardcore for years. When I tried softcore in D2 everyone was dying left and right for absolutely outrageous, pointless, and random reasons. Often multiple times in a row, for the same reason. They never learn. Why? Because there is no consequence to their actions. If you survive in extremis because you alt-f4 like a boss, and you find your own heart racing like crazy and your fingers are shaking, let me tell you one thing: you will remember that mistake. And never do it again, unless you want to have a heart attack. That being said, if you are skilled, and quick, you will die less. I am ALL in favor of more skills = more survivability. Something Activision-Blizzard doesn't comprehend.

P.S. Chris has said numerous times that Alt-F4 is intended, is not an exploit, and will always be a feature in this game, the same way it was and still is in Diablo II. And yet, players struggled to get to the top ladder positions in Diablo II on HC. Right, because there is much more to Hardcore than Alt-F4. It's not foolproof, at all. Just a tool available to players with quick-thinking and good reflexes. All the more reason to keep it in.

"

Daxtreme wrote:

"

KingCalvin wrote:

wait just a minute. so when these guys think they are going to die, they close out the game? that's how you get to the top of the ladder. thats pretty lame hardcore.

You must be pretty new around here, because most Path of Exile players come from Diablo II, the creator of Hardcore. And in Diablo II, you could Alt-F4 to save your ass.

Alright then. What are you waiting for? Come play Hardcore!

That's right. You perfectly know that you won't be able to land that Alt-F4 when the split-second moment of truth arrives. You perfectly know that the moment you will start desyncing, you will panic, hit all your potions, unlike experienced Hardcore users who will instantly hit ENTER, type in /oos, and review the situation (alt-f4? potion and run? TP?), all within 1 sec of game-time. These are the reflexes that a Hardcore player needs, and very few possess them.

I learned to Alt-F4 because I played Diablo II hardcore for years. If you are skilled, you will die less. I am ALL in favor of more skills = more survivability. Something Activision-Blizzard doesn't comprehend.

Just buy something like this:



Make a macro for alt-f4 and stick it on the side buttons, very easy to press in a fraction of the time it would take to press alt-f4.

Cheating made even easier! No need for uber reflexes.