What nugiyen is doing right now is amazing

"

Lyralei wrote:

"

Charan wrote:

Man, you are one unreasonable, stubborn fellow. Everyone dies eventually. He was doing extremely well.

He was doing what people said can't be done.

Can't you take that jaded spoon out of your mouth for just enough time to give credit where it's due?

Seriously.

You should probably know that he was also like this on GW2G. He has serious attitude issues that even the moderators over there found difficult to deal with. Y'know, typical "find-things-to-complain-about" behaviour.

I think nugi's choice was quite stellar. Nobody would have thought to amplify the range of cleave to ridiculous levels and draw all damage from elemental nodes. Maybe Inva, since he's our de-facto weird build guy.

I don't get what your problem is. I never had any issues with the mods on the GW2G forums so stop making random stuff up.

If you actually read the GW2G forums when that game was in beta, you would know that about 80% of the community were actually complaining about the same thing with melee being underpowered and not as viable as ranged. Eventually Anet buffed Thieves and maybe some of the other classes too.

If something isn't working in a game, people are going to mention it. I'm not the only person here pointing out that certain mechanics are currently not working in PoE, tell me then if I'm wrong, why exactly are dualists and melee already being buffed? Why did the developers agree that act 3 mobs were dealing too much damage and have already began to reduce it? Why have the mods admitted that the game currently has too much reliance on HP nodes and that they are working on fixing this?

The point of a beta in case you didn't know is to report bugs and probems like these so that the game can be correctly balanced. I actually find it laughable that the community here is accepting alt-f4ing to avoid death means that builds that rely on this cheat are valid.

I raised a melee with 1 HP and 3000ish ES to level 75. So what? That doesn't make it valid to me if it can't clear end game maps solo.

Valid / viable to me in this game means being able to play the entire game solo and successfully beat end game content. That someone has found a way to make a cleave build work is great. The fact that he has been shown to be relying on alt f4ing to make it work and avoid death to me is cheating.

I also don't understand the point of praising / worshipping people just because they stream videos, but whatever. Discussions are never meant to be one sided, people will always have different opinions to you whether you like them or not.

"

VolcanoElixir wrote:

"

No I want multiple good melee builds, especially ones that don't rely on increased range. For that we'll need more melee AoE skills. It's good that GGG's working on them.

There's a good chance that whatever new AoE skill that comes out will likely work with increased range and be considered a range attack by people calling half of the melee skills ranged, unless you want a super small AoE that doesn't extend beyond how far your character can naturally reach.

If there were an AoE skill that requires you to hit the target in melee range like with the single-target melee skills*, and the game reaches a point where that skill is as viable as the ranged ones, then I think the ranged vs melee issue can be finally put to rest. With any other skill you can't be sure whether the two types of characters are balanced or whether it's just the safety of range at work.

*Like if lightning strike always had to hit a target in melee range to release the bolts (no shift-clicking)

It's not that anybody is wrong about melee, it's just the evolution of the argument is tiresome.

The argument used to be that melee was not viable for any late game (i.e map) and this was a hard lined stance. Now that it has been proven to be incorrect, the same camp is doubling down on technicalities of what constitutes melee.

In effect, there's no end to this. Eventually, some other technicality will be harped on...and this pattern is likely to be reproduced with other major talking points such as map drop rate, FFA loot timers, etc.


It's good and bad I suppose, but in a thread simply commending someone for attempting/succeeding at beating the perceived inadequacies of the system should be left at that.

"

If there were an AoE skill that requires you to hit the target in melee range like with the single-target melee skills*, and the game reaches a point where that skill is as viable as the ranged ones, then I think the ranged vs melee issue can be finally put to rest. With any other skill you can't be sure whether the two types of characters are balanced or whether it's just the safety of range at work.

*Like if lightning strike always had to hit a target in melee range to release the bolts (no shift-clicking)

I would much rather if I were a Melee character to just have some really good AoE abilities than to have to rely "AoE as a reward for hitting something at super short range" just to justify my existence as a Melee character.

Not to say that such an attack isn't a good idea in general, but not for the sake of ending the argument between melee and ranged.

"

crabshack wrote:

It's not that anybody is wrong about melee, it's just the evolution of the argument is tiresome.

The argument used to be that melee was not viable for any late game (i.e map) and this was a hard lined stance. Now that it has been proven to be incorrect, the same camp is doubling down on technicalities of what constitutes melee.

In effect, there's no end to this. Eventually, some other technicality will be harped on...and this pattern is likely to be reproduced with other major talking points such as map drop rate, FFA loot timers, etc.


It's good and bad I suppose, but in a thread simply commending someone for attempting/succeeding at beating the perceived inadequacies of the system should be left at that.

I was actually never complaining so much about cleave. I've used it myself and its the strongest melee skill in the game. I never doubted that an end game character couldn't be valid with high HP and cleave.

However I doubt that you can manage the same on specific other melee builds, particularly claw or daggers which cannot use cleave, or on ES + GR focused shadows using claws and life leech.

Most of the complaints about melee being imbalanced have little to do with its viablity or all melee builds. They are about specific builds that people have already tested and have been reported by lots of people to not be working.

People are rightfuy complaining about this in the beta stages because they want lots more builds to be valid in the end game. And why shouldn't they be?

"

VolcanoElixir wrote:

"

If there were an AoE skill that requires you to hit the target in melee range like with the single-target melee skills*, and the game reaches a point where that skill is as viable as the ranged ones, then I think the ranged vs melee issue can be finally put to rest. With any other skill you can't be sure whether the two types of characters are balanced or whether it's just the safety of range at work.

*Like if lightning strike always had to hit a target in melee range to release the bolts (no shift-clicking)

I would much rather if I were a Melee character to just have some really good AoE abilities than to have to rely "AoE as a reward for hitting something at super short range" just to justify my existence as a Melee character.

Not to say that such an attack isn't a good idea in general, but not for the sake of ending the argument between melee and ranged.

Oh, definitely. I'm not saying that's a good reason to add a skill like that. Just that you can only tell for sure if the balance is right with such a skill.

I have been rocking ass with a staff Templar all melee. currently in act 2 merc at 58 with no signs of slowing down (we'll see how act 3 goes). melee skills I use are leap slam, sweep and double strike that's it I don't attack with anything else. seriously hes kicking ass I have been pleasantly surprised with this build didn't expect to get so far with it with all the complaining i see about melee builds (this is my first truly melee character). Even if it ends hitting a wall later its still been a really fun build though.

"

redrach wrote:

"

Charan wrote:

It's also not relevant to the topic at hand, which is that melee is viable at end-game if done right.

Is that even the topic?

I thought the point was that what he's doing is so amazing because it's so hard. It's not a measure of the viability of melee (which would require taking into account multiple melee builds, how they compare at farming speed/safety vs. ranged builds at similar levels of investment, etc.)

lol - if done right?

WTF. so were all just to copy nugiyen eh, fuck the rest of the fail builds that dont work...

blah. I dont even know what the fuck to say im so flabbergasted over this one...

"

derbefrier wrote:

I have been rocking ass with a staff Templar all melee. currently in act 2 merc at 58 with no signs of slowing down (we'll see how act 3 goes). melee skills I use are leap slam, sweep and double strike that's it I don't attack with anything else. seriously hes kicking ass I have been pleasantly surprised with this build didn't expect to get so far with it with all the complaining i see about melee builds (this is my first truly melee character). Even if it ends hitting a wall later its still been a really fun build though.

Lots of builds that work up to your current point end up not working well at level 75+ and map grinding.

My melee shadow was also fine up to act 2 merc, as is my current wand witch. Its act 3 merc, and even act 3 cruel, and end game maps that become the real test of whether a build is valid or not.

However Act 3 mobs have already been nerfed, and there will likely continue to be more teams to end game difficulty.

"

skarrmania wrote:

"

MonstaMunch wrote:

Respect to him.

That's going too far, I have unfortunately no respect for people who make a living playing video games.

What is wrong with people that play video games to make a living? Do you also have no respect for people that play sports for money? Just playing a game for cash. How about movie stars? They just LARP for money.