Are Stashtabs PAY2WIN?

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Xtorma wrote:

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Arrataz wrote:

First you have to define "win".

I view POE as a free to play game until you hit maps, roughly. Maybe even for a while in maps. But if you want to "win", that is finish Zana's quest and kill the Shaper, and then the Shaper/Elder combo, you will absolutely need to have a currency tab. Is it possible to do it without? Theoretically. Practically? No. With the currency stack size at 10, you'd have to be micromanaging your currency and your maps in just four tabs.

I tell new players when they ask if stash tabs are mandatory, that yes, for the end-game, a currency tab is mandatory, but until then, no.

Win is part of a larger definition in pay-to-win, and is already defined within it.

Except it's not. I can do an SSF and do shaper with 4 tabs if I play meta. Will my gameplay change with 4 tabs? Obviously, but there are also less things I have to worry about.

I make a lot of currency in general without doing any recipe, just by alching/chancing maps and doing the maps.

In most games that are f2p it is different since there is content that is gated by massive grinding. POE has massive grinding, but it is a hack and slash so by definition it will be grindy.

Is it more enjoyable to have more tabs? Certainly, but definitely not pay to win. People managed with not many tabs before maps tab appeared, however they got lazy once the maps tab got released since you can just control click all your maps in one spot in a neat way and it even tells you if it was completed.

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Arrataz wrote:

I tell new players when they ask if stash tabs are mandatory, that yes, for the end-game, a currency tab is mandatory, but until then, no.

I'm sorry but this statement is far from being true. I would say that Map tab is probably more important than currency one but you can kill end-game bosses without any of them. However I agree, this is probably more "pleasant" if you have additional tabs:
- Pay for convenience = probably yes
- Pay to win = definitively not

I think they more like QOL

If by "winning" we mean 100, 40 challeges, beat all boss...

In general yes.

It's like: more tabs, more you have for sell, more you can sell, more rich you get, more good shit you can get.

It's just a numbers game like asking 100 girls out vs 1. You'll get a more dates just like you'll get more sales asking people to buy more of your items..

Of course ez way to get rich you don't even need 2 tabs just one and flip/price fix all game.

So like I said in general.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

If by "winning" we mean 100, 40 challeges, beat all boss...

In general yes.

It's like: more tabs, more you have for sell, more you can sell, more rich you get, more good shit you can get.

It's just a numbers game like asking 100 girls out vs 1. You'll get a more dates just like you'll get more sales asking people to buy more of your items..

Of course ez way to get rich you don't even need 2 tabs just one and flip/price fix all game.

So like I said in general.

That doesn't make any sense. That is if you play ''path of buying your challenges'' with currency made from ''path of trading''.

In general though you would not need specific stuff if you went meta.

one of the best players in the game is https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Ailatwplayer/characters


He streams and plays SSFHC and is usually one of the first people to lvl 100 and has won many past event/races etc...

He plays with the same amount of stashes you get when you make a brand new account


Keep in mind the game is free to play

They have to make money

If they dont make money on the game they cannot afford to pay for the server hosting and continued expansions/ support/ patches/ etc.


Pay 2 win by definition is paying for an advantage over other players

Thing is this isnt a pvp game or a game where other people really impact your gameplay.

Yes there is an economy and playing in trade/std/hc leagues mean that you can trade for items

Do you "HAVE" to trade? No

So what do stash tabs do for the most part?

Special tabs - currency/map/etc - If you play alot you should purchase tabs for the quality of life to not need to organize and have more space available.

Do you NEED extra stashes? Only if you're a hoarder and try to get every 1c trade on every unique you possibly can.

Realistically you can also make your own guild and have 1 free guild stash available to use.


Premium Tabs - These have the convenience of being able to change the color and name of the tab, but also to automatically list it to their trade api.

You can make forum shops and link items into the thread and from the thread they get pulled into the trade.api etc.

Its your choice to use it or do trading at all like this, but most people prefer to use premium tabs to trade

Others Tabs like Quad Tabs - Pure convenience and extra space

Now how much do tabs actually cost?

Lets look @ their sale price -

Premium Stash tab - 30 points on sale

Map stash tab - 120 points on sale

Currency Stash tab - 60 points on sale

6 Premium Stash Tab Bundle - 165 points on sale


So lets say map/currency/premium are essential

Thats 16.5 + 6 + 12 = 34 dollars and 50 cents

Wow thats pretty cheap for a game thats had more expansions then WOW, Diablo 3, and many other games combined.

Content expansions are free and will continue to be free, this game is free.

Looks like even if you bought essential stashes you're still under 60 USD which is the average price for a game.

Compare to WOW which has a purchase fee, sub fee, and fee per expansion.

P2W is when you can pay for ingame items with real money that wouldnt be normally available any other way, or paying for leveled characters or advantages that other players cannot get.



The game is free to play, but if you consider it a 60 dollar game you have more then enough stashes to last you the rest of your POE life unless you are a hardcore no-lifer in which case you should have no problem paying for more tabs.


If you cannot afford to pay for a game you shouldnt be gaming in the first place imo

Gaming is a privilege and you should have your shit sorted before you spend time gaming.

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benjaminbona wrote:

Realistically you can also make your own guild and have 1 free guild stash available to use.

FALSE

Make a new guild, have zero tabs. You have to buy the first one.

Stashtabs are pay for convenience. They may not necessarly give you a direct stat advantage, but in the long run they will start to give you an indrect stat advantage. This means that yes, they are pay to win.
As much as people like myself like to say PoE isn't pay to win, that just isn't the case, not everyone get to enjoy extra stashtabs, not everyone can be superefficient with them, but if you can, then you could progress from beginning to hardest content about the game speed as every other player can.
It's important to consider that pay to win is gaining an advantage over others, no matter if it's a "first to reach number 1" type of situation or a "i have a lot of bank space compared to others so i can store and sell whatever i want which will make me very wealthy and make it very easy for me to make new characters..." type of situation... Now all of this is taking it litterally, and we don't really do that when we say PoE isn't pay to win.

Basically, if you like to look at it litterally, PoE is pay to win with very few exceptions, otherwise it's not

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VoidExilePoE wrote:

Stashtabs are pay for convenience. They may not necessarly give you a direct stat advantage, but in the long run they will start to give you an indrect stat advantage. This means that yes, they are pay to win.
As much as people like myself like to say PoE isn't pay to win, that just isn't the case, not everyone get to enjoy extra stashtabs, not everyone can be superefficient with them, but if you can, then you could progress from beginning to hardest content about the game speed as every other player can.
It's important to consider that pay to win is gaining an advantage over others, no matter if it's a "first to reach number 1" type of situation or a "i have a lot of bank space compared to others so i can store and sell whatever i want which will make me very wealthy and make it very easy for me to make new characters..." type of situation... Now all of this is taking it litterally, and we don't really do that when we say PoE isn't pay to win.

Basically, if you like to look at it litterally, PoE is pay to win with very few exceptions, otherwise it's not

''not everyone get to enjoy extra stashtabs, not everyone can be superefficient with them, but if you can, then you could progress from beginning to hardest content about the game speed as every other player can.''

-More stashes does not mean easier though, just more organized. In POE though, what is really defining as ''win'' ? Doing Shaper,atziri,Mastermind?

Is the game better if you have some specific stashes? Yes. Pay 2 win? Not really, do an RF juggernaut and you can win quite easily.

Whether or not stash tab are pay2win is irrelevant, GGG found a way to sell micro-transactions to people who wouldn't otherwise and it's working.

They even got smarter about it, essences, fragments, cards, maps; introduce a new currency then sell a tab to hold it. I can't imagine how much money the failure of leaguestones lost them, and you know a fossil/resonator stash is just around the corner, prepare yourself to pay 10$ for a kilobyte of storage and start whaling!