Are Stashtabs PAY2WIN?

talking about p2w in the game that has huge amount of rmt/bots up and running
yeah, this is surely important topic

To my surprise, this turns into a rather civilized discussion.

"

nadakuu wrote:

By your definition of p2w , it is also pay to win if i use a bag for groceries vs carrying it with my hand simply because i have to make less trips?

In fact it is. Much of life is indeed "pay2win," in a sense. And there is nothing wrong with that. The difference is, you are describing a scenario in which there is no need to divorce real-life currency from in-game currency.

Let's dig a little deeper. Why do they need to be divorced?

I think this is connected to

1. worldwide economies, and
2. work vs. play.

They are closely linked: If you live in a country where the average minimum wage is $US1.5/hr, it might actually be profitable to farm currency on online games and engage in RMT. But if you don't live in a country where the minimum wage is so low, and yet people are engaging in RMT, then any currency gains you make will feel hollow: "Oh great, I found an exalted orb, the equivalent of 15 minutes of my ACTUAL wage, after only five hours of play. Bully for me."

Of course RMT and Pay2Win are not the same thing, but they are very similar in regards to economy relationships: For people living in an industrialized nation (and able to afford a computer capable of playing PoE at a reasonable framerate), your spending potential will ALWAYS outstrip your currency-making potential in the game.

Therefore, any marriage of real-life currency with in-game currency will have the same problem that invincibility mode, or any other kind of cheating, does: It makes the game feel meaningless.

That all said, to bring it back to my previous stance, non-cosmetic MTXs in PoE do not scale (over time nor in intensity). After you have bought the stashtabs that you actually need to succeed at the game (which, again, varies by person), you never have to buy any ever again.

That's why I classify this game as Pay2Play and not Free2Play NOR Pay2Win.

i've always thought all the premium (API) tabs are p2w.

Anyone who thinks the tabs are not p2w are welcome to give a few examples of what they think would be p2w.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Pay2win typically implies scaling benefits: You pay more, you benefit more.

No. Imagine if they sold a permanent +30% damage boost. There would be no scaling involved, but that would surely be p2w, no?

"

Sickness wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Pay2win typically implies scaling benefits: You pay more, you benefit more.

No. Imagine if they sold a permanent +30% damage boost. There would be no scaling involved, but that would surely be p2w, no?

You're not wrong.

But let's play this out. All players are allowed to play a game for free with a 30%-less-damage penalty. This is advertised, and KNOWN. Once you pay the game's price, your penalty is removed.

What you end up with is a pay2play game with a crippled-demo for non-paying players.

I am arguing that that is exactly what PoE is.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Sickness wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Pay2win typically implies scaling benefits: You pay more, you benefit more.

No. Imagine if they sold a permanent +30% damage boost. There would be no scaling involved, but that would surely be p2w, no?

You're not wrong.

But let's play this out. All players are allowed to play a game for free with a 30%-less-damage penalty. This is advertised, and KNOWN. Once you pay the game's price, your penalty is removed.

What you end up with is a pay2play game with a crippled-demo for non-paying players.

I am arguing that that is exactly what PoE is.

That is one way to look at it.

It's not P2W imo. Stash tabs are convenience. Huge convenience, but still convenience. You can spend all the money on the world on stash tabs and your character won't gain a single stat point. Its power and the speed at which it levels up (and thus gains power) will stay exactly the same. What I'm saying is, there's no link to the "win" in P2W.

"

Miathan51 wrote:

It's not P2W imo. Stash tabs are convenience. Huge convenience, but still convenience. You can spend all the money on the world on stash tabs and your character won't gain a single stat point. Its power and the speed at which it levels up (and thus gains power) will stay exactly the same. What I'm saying is, there's no link to the "win" in P2W.

Having a couple of premium tabs allows you to earn currency faster, which allows for faster power gain. That is one link to p2w.