Are Stashtabs PAY2WIN?

Hello folks,

Since there is another thread, where this is discussed heavily (but Off-Topic) I thought it makes sense to make a whole standalone thread for this topic. There are many arguments and definitions thrown into the discussion from both sides, trying to make a stand if Stashtabs are actually P2W or not.

For me personally, they aren't. I have over 30 Stashtabs, but I'm clearly not "winning" at this game. I never have stuff in my stashtab worth more then like 3-5 exalteds, never cleared super high level content and I'm incredible slow - every season. Stashtabs kinda help me to get a little bit income from here and there, but truely spoken, I make more out of clearing maps (even with my slow clear speed). Pro-Players on the other side mainly focus on clearing maps and only pick up high value stuff. They dont have so much anyway and therefore dont hord items that full hundreds of stashtabs. Furthermore, Pro-Players usually dont go often to the stashtab when they try to reach level 90+ first and clear endgame maps or delve first. They simply dont have the time to (ab)use their Premium Stashtabs alot. Yet, they are still the first ones that are rich and got the super equipment. Why? Because they clear high level stuff at a very fast speed without wasting time on item micromanagement. They simply get the good drops because they focus on clearing.

So, what is your stand on this topic?

Greetings

PS: Here is the link to the thread that kinda got derailed by this topic:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2288180

The amounts of trolls you will have here shortly, will surprise you.

So allow me to start:
"Hmm what do you win?"

Not really pay2win, more pay2play.

Well, no, you don't win by using them, in a sense, you lose if you don't, but that is a different thing.

I would in no shape, way or form consider playing the game without currency and map tab at the very least. However, I know there are people that do not need those and still rock the game.

So... not winning, but the convenience difference is like day and night for me

You can "win" without stash tabs, but they sure will make your life easier.
I would label them as soft pay2win.

you dont even need 2 stash tabs to manage your items.
i probably did not even sell more than 2 tabs of items during entire betrayal league.
and you dont need premium stash tabs to sell your items.
so no. stash tabs are qol that you dont need to buy in order to beat this game and they dont make your game easier to deal with.
player quality is the defining matter when it comes to playing this game better or making it easier.
we now can see this better with private leagues. players succeed to beat the content in ssf hc hard modded leagues w/o even a stash.

"

aldorus wrote:

I would in no shape, way or form consider playing the game without currency and map tab at the very least. However, I know there are people that do not need those and still rock the game.

So... not winning, but the convenience difference is like day and night for me

+1

I wouldn't necessarily call it pay to win, since what are you winning? Its not exactly a competitive game.

But at this point the special tabs feel mostly mandatory. The game barrages you with all kinds of crap; picking up maps currency and fragments feels mandatory to me at this point.

No, it is not pay to win as you can create infinite accounts to store gear should you need and can run atleast 2 instances of poe at the same time provided you are not controlling both windows with the same 1 input.

compared to other games, you actually get quite alot of space considering you can make 24 characters per account for free. Compared to others in the genre poe is actually at the top for space.

It is pay for convenience for sure, and well it should be. You get a game with a lot of content and then you can decide for yourself if you want to continue the game of music chars- swapping for a chance to store stuff - or to pay some money for the essentials.

If you play enough where 24 characters and 4 stash tabs are not enough room, then you are either hoarding worthless items or have invested enough time that it would be less then $1 per hour of entertainment to get a $60 pack.
With that you just wait for stash tab sale event and buy currency 60/ map tabs 120 /divination 40/ fragments 30/essense 30 and some premium tabs 165 for 6

60
120
40
30
30
165
= 445

60$ pack gives you 550 + some mtx value
Save remaining points for box sale (buy 1 get 1) - or to get a smaller item.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

Not really pay2win, more pay2play.

This has always been my position.

Pay2win typically implies scaling benefits: You pay more, you benefit more.

Whereas if you buy a game outright (you might say that that is a minimum "win" condition, haha) your benefits remain static.

Beyond the map/essence/fragment tab, the number of tabs you need to actually play this game and not be annoyed into insanity is limited to X amount (varies by player).

"

ajo wrote:

Yes, tabs are P2W.

P2W is a term that means:
- Real money = In-game benefits. (Simple as that)

Terms are words and compound words or multi-word expressions that in specific contexts are given specific meanings

Trying to breakdown a term to freely interpret the individual words as a defense is just silly nonsense. Unfortunately I think that most counter-arguments will circle around this anyway which makes it as boring as discussing if the earth is flat or not.

"

nadakuu wrote:

No, it is not pay to win as you can create infinite accounts to store gear should you need and can run atleast 2 instances of poe at the same time provided you are not controlling both windows with the same 1 input.

But surely this must be tedious and slow, right?
Wouldn't it be more efficient to just spend some real money?

You just described P2W mechanics.

but you are not spending money to get currency , so no it is not pay to win.
i am not gaining double experience by paying money, nor am i gaining interest on currency that is stored.

No one is forcing you to horde tons of currency and not upgrade it.
By your definition of p2w , it is also pay to win if i use a bag for groceries vs carrying it with my hand simply because i have to make less trips?

Sorry no.