please end mystery boxes (loot boxes, glorified gambling)

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Xavathos wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

is there another meaning to the word win?

There is the colloquial meaning of the phrase P2W, are you aware of it at all?

Now please, define a win condition and give some example of things that would be P2W (in the context of PoE ofcourse).

Excuse me, but isn't that your job? You're the one claiming tabs are P2W, let's hear it.

For me it is very easy. Let's say an +10% IIQ buff. That's P2W in my book.
I don't see how it can possibly be P2W for you though. It does not allow you to win anything.
So am I correct in assuming that you would not consider a +10% IIQ buff sold in the store to be P2W?

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Sickness wrote:

For me it is very easy. Let's say an +10% IIQ buff. That's P2W in my book.
I don't see how it can possibly be P2W for you though. It does not allow you to win anything.
So am I correct in assuming that you would not consider a +10% IIQ buff sold in the store to be P2W?

I literally stated that I think that would be P2W. Tabs don't do that, so where is your P2W then?

It's not some smirky comment btw, I was just leaving because you can't bring anything to the table. You're just puking words with no meaning. Give us something with substance, would you?

I'm eager to discuss this topic with you, I think it's a very interesting topic, but you're not discussing at all right now. Stop attacking me and start attacking my argument, maybe start by answering the question I've asked you 3 times now? If you can... SMIRK :)

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Xavathos wrote:

I literally stated that I think that would be P2W. Tabs don't do that, so where is your P2W then?

It's not some smirky comment btw, I was just leaving because you can't bring anything to the table. You're just puking words with no meaning. Give us something with substance, would you?

I'm eager to discuss this topic with you, I think it's a very interesting topic, but you're not discussing at all right now. Stop attacking me and start attacking my argument, maybe start by answering the question I've asked you 3 times now? If you can... SMIRK :)

Ok so for you it's not about "winning" (like it is for the other guy").
Our argument should then only be regarding if whether stash tabs gives an advantage or not.
Why do we even need to have that argument? They very clearly do give an advantage. They let you aquire currency at a faster pace, just like IIQ. Among other things they give you access to a much larger customer base to sell to and they require much less time to find the right buyer, time that can be used to farm etc.
If this isn't P2W, then why is buying IIQ P2W? That is also just saving time since you could essentially just kill some extra monsters and end up with the same result.
To borrow from you: As it stands though, you can do everything as a F2P player that a player with +10% IIQ can do.

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Sickness wrote:

Ok so for you it's not about "winning" (like it is for the other guy").

Correct.

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Sickness wrote:

Our argument should then only be regarding if whether stash tabs gives an advantage or not.
Why do we even need to have that argument? They very clearly do give an advantage. They let you aquire currency at a faster pace, just like IIQ. Among other things they give you access to a much larger customer base to sell to and they require much less time to find the right buyer, time that can be used to farm etc.

If GGG added 2500 stash tabs to my account without telling me right now, the only time I'd notice is when I set up the names and colours of my tabs at the start of a league. Other than that, I'd never notice. Why? Because I don't use the vast majority of my tabs. The only reason I even use like 10 in total (including special tabs) is because I can not because I need to. There's a clear difference between doing something for convenience because it's available to you and doing something because you need to do so in order to progress or "win" if you will.

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Sickness wrote:

If this isn't P2W, then why is buying IIQ P2W? That is also just saving time since you could essentially just kill some extra monsters and end up with the same result.
To borrow from you: As it stands though, you can do everything as a F2P player that a player with +10% IIQ can do.

This is where your argument falls flat. You're now stating a stash tab is equal to IIQ, because both save time. You're straight up wrong, because stash tabs don't save you time at all. In fact, you have more micro-managing to do than you would with less space. Also, if tabs gave you 10% IIQ, a F2P player actually could NOT do everything a paying player could, because he'd have less IIQ.

You strike me as a smart guy and I just don't understand how this is so hard for you to grasp. Maybe I'm just terrible at explaining it, I don't know.

Way off topic, guys. It's worth discussing, but not in this thread.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Way off topic, guys. It's worth discussing, but not in this thread.

agreed. this is about mystery boxes. nothing else.

You wouldn't need nor notice a +10% IQQ buff every once every century either, so that clearly doesnt disqualify it from being P2W. Why even bring that up?

The idea that stash tabs are necessarily a net loss of currency/progress is ridiculous.

If you ever find something that is worth the time selling you are far better off selling it via a stash tab. Your argument essentially requires it to not exist anything that is worth more currency than would drop in the time it takes to make a tp to town and sell an item. That's frankly quite stupid and I dont think you have thought it through properly.

What exactly could a f2p player not do that a player with 10 extra IIQ do? They can do the exact same content and aquire the exact same loot.
If your answer is a version of "higher achievable numbers on the character sheet" don't bother.

Would you consider it P2W if they sold currency items?

These boxes contain full cosmetic items, it's not like they are currency boxes with random tabs. I can kind of understand the frustratrion, but as long as they do similar content that is not behind a RNG box I don't think it matters that much.

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achillesdub wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Way off topic, guys. It's worth discussing, but not in this thread.

agreed. this is about mystery boxes. nothing else.

Ah yeah that's true, we're drifting a bit far from shore now. Apologies, OP.

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ajo wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

You're straight up wrong, because stash tabs don't save you time at all. In fact, you have more micro-managing to do than you would with less space.

Oh come on. Even flat-earthers have better counter-arguments than this.

Rest easy. Your constant ad hominem arguments aren't going unnoticed, ajo. I'm afraid I won't be able to address them at this time though.