please end mystery boxes (loot boxes, glorified gambling)
" You already have space, period. Stash tabs do give an edge to people who like hoarding and people who don't want to make choices regarding what to keep and what to sell / not pick. "Winning" is subjective in PoE. In my honest opinion, the only way that you can actually "win" in PoE is by being at the top of a ladder. " I think I'll give it a look when I will have a bit of time, thanks for the reference. " That's sad .... and unfortunately, it does not seem wrong T__T. You need to consider the fact that they are producing significantly more Mtx than before, so their policy also might have changed accordingly. The picture that you are depicting makes a lot of sense though. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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wow the p2w defense is even more bizarre.
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" You didn't understand a word of what has been said in the last posts of this thread, did you ? Oh well, it's not like your absolute opinion has the least bit of significance, so ... I'll be happy to play with couple of premium tab in a game that will never be pay to win, aka Path of Exile. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" Stash tabs are not P2W because while they are P2W I still think they are ok. Loot boxes are not gambling because while they are gambling I still think they are ok. Don't expect too much from these folks. Last edited by Sickness#1007 on Jan 1, 2019, 6:35:43 AM
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" good point actually. didn't consider that. the only argument against that are the massive complaints of people getting duplicates, which indicates to me most players just dress up one char. on the other hand, they massively expanding hideout decorations, which seems like a lucrative way out of this dead end. well, yes, i should stop talking things bad as a new years promise ;-) age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
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" p2w let's you purchase more ingame power to beat content faster and reach more lucrative areas of the game faster. let me tell you how much advantages 200+ stash tabs bring you. well, i can't sell shit cause it doesn't help me in beating game content at all. tabs make me hoard stuff i never use or sell. the more i try to sell the more time i have to spend selling for currency i would have also found in the game mostly. only automatic selling would make them p2w. --- it's the opposite, the more tabs you have the more the micromanagement slows you down. substantially. having no tabs help you in one of the greatest challenges poe has: ignore all loot except very few items. stash tabs allow you to play a different poe. a slower one which is more tetris than an action rpg age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill! Last edited by vio#1992 on Jan 1, 2019, 7:16:51 AM
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This is one huge off-topic rant, so feel free to ignore it.
Spoiler
" Actually, no. Taking statements out of context is intellectually dishonest. (I'm not accusing you of being personally dishonest, because you may not have done it on purpose. But it is intellectually dishonest in either case.) The entire statement made by Fruz was as follows: " This has a meaning which is fundamentally different from the quotation you provided. If he had indeed said "stash tabs do give an edge to people" without immediately qualifying it in the same sentence then yes, he would have unwittingly supported your argument. THAT SAID. In fact his statement is incomplete. Stash tabs do reduce micromanagement and save you time. Currency, essence, map tab in particular. Div card tab: not so much. Anything that saves us time is DEFINITELY an "edge." People are weirdly confused by the inclusion of the word "win" in "pay2win," as if there weren't many games with well-established pay2win mechanics with equally nebulous "win" conditions. I've even seen some GGG critics try to sidestep this fallacious form of reasoning by using the phrase "pay4advantage," since everyone seems to agree that cosmetics provide no advantage but in-game features which save you time do provide an advantage. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the most popular forms of mobile game P2W MTXs are all time-saving ones. " The same is true for Ubisoft's XP booster packs. In the end they just "save you some time." And most of their games aren't even multiplayer, with economic and competitive aspects like PoE. And the ability of a few elite players to play the game without using any paid stash tabs (an extreme example of a rare and unlikely scenario, but I'll ignore that for the sake of argument) is not relevant. Do they, or do they not, provide the average purchasing player with an advantage? You can argue that stash tabs (especially special ones, like the currency and map tab, which actively *reduce* micromanagement) are "pay4advantage lite," because they don't scale with multiple purchases, but that doesn't mean they aren't pay4advantage. And another off-topic bit:
Spoiler
" This is somehow "investment" and not "ownership?" Sorry, vio, I'm not following you there. If I "invest" in your company, it does not mean that I "buy it and consider the purchase to be a good investment." It means that I inject money into the enterprise in the hopes for a return. Acquisition and investment are fundamentally different concepts in business; conflating them is simply bizarre. Wash your hands, Exile! Last edited by gibbousmoon#4656 on Jan 1, 2019, 7:42:55 AM
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" Right, "beat the game" might be a better way to put it. And premium tabs don't actually necessarily help one beat the game. But for that, one needs to be very knowledgeable about the game and really know what is needed, and what isn't for progression, and that isn't easy imo. So I would say that premium tab do make the game easier to play, there's that. No matter how much money I spend on this game, I know that I will never be able to beat the best players by quite a big margin, and I don't consider myself bad at the game. " I would say that it's arguable. I like using my map stash because I like when it's all ordered and it does it mostly automatically, but .... when I watch some streamers mapping at high level, what they do (for efficiency) is dump everything that they deem valuable in a quad tab, and find what they need through the search by keyword. I would agree that with all new additions (especially fossils and resonators), it is becoming less and less convenient (or more and more difficult, it's pretty much the same here I guess) to play the game with fully using all available mechanics without some extra tabs. GGG has been dancing on the edge of what's acceptable to be able to call the game not 'pay to win' SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jan 1, 2019, 7:46:04 AM
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" Morality isn't absolute. People, governments, organizations, business' they all exist on their own scale. A lot of conflict arises because of this. You see it especially in politics. Loot boxes are gambling, I don't think anyone could dispute this. Gambling is not universally illegal though. Different communities exist at different rungs on the moral ladder. Where I live gambling is legal. My state understands and acknowledges the danger gambling poses to a small minority of individuals, but they also reap huge financial benefits from the industry that goes into making the state better. Same goes for alcohol, tobacco and many other damaging industries that put small segments of people at risk. It's a complicated issue. In the end though GGG is the king of this game. There is no democracy here. They set the moral scale. There are plenty of moral battles you can wage when it comes to this game, but there is no wall keeping anyone here, so if a few players want to take a moral stand it's not really going to achieve anything. |
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If stash tabs are not p2w, can you give some examples of things that would be p2w?
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