please end mystery boxes (loot boxes, glorified gambling)

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Miská wrote:

I wish people could just let other people decide what they wanna do with their money instead of thinking you know what's 'best'.

If you are prone to gambling, the big bad internet has alot worse to offer then some silly lootboxes.

They can't. It all goes back to what I mentioned about moral scale. If someone perceives themselves as higher on the scale than you do, they are going to feel obligated to force what they deem as their superior morality onto everyone they consider lower on the scale. In their estimation, you are morally deficient, and for your own good, and the good of society as a whole, they will seek to create an environment that forces you up the scale, or forces you out.

In the op's defense, they are just asking, not advocating any force, but there are those who honestly believe that force should be used on anyone whose morality is not at least on par with their own. Take a look around the world right now, you can find myriad examples of this happening.

It's always been this way.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

IMO the way Chris handled the acquisition was worse than the acquisition itself (bad as that was):
Trying to spin it as an "investment" in GGG rather than coming clean and telling loyal fans and customers what was really going on.

it's been an investment. 10c invested into the rights to use and secure the game for the chinese market. the profitable version of the game that is, the rmt one.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

I've said it before: I'm a pragmatist. By all means, sell your business if it is the best thing for you and your family. But don't lie to your supporters.

how did they lie? maybe you didn't read it all? ggg's staff is employed by 10c now.
10c just granted them the power to decide over the game's design issues (for the global realm version, obviously).

ggg is free of all financial decisions now.
means, if 10c wants the international version gone and them devs concentrating on the chinese version, international servers go down. fump!

if the international version isn't profitable anymore, siiuuummmmp! klonk! down!

---

the whole "loot boxes are scammy" discusions are moot. they're the last desperate try to make money out of mtx.

mtx first had a fixed price.
then ggg did sales with the stuff others had supported alot for before.
then they had "super sales 50% off" which made people not buying the expensive and reputational stuff anymore
and lastly they did mtx boxes which are just trowing mtx after people for peanuts, making people who buy mtx on sales look like losers.

what's next? giving people back points if they wear certain mtx? i think we already reached the bottom.

happy new year to you all!

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Stash tabs are clearly P2W, the only saving grace being that they are not overly expensive(except for the map stash tab).

Enlighten me: Why are they pay2win?

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Stash tabs are clearly P2W, the only saving grace being that they are not overly expensive(except for the map stash tab).

Enlighten me: Why are they pay2win?

not saying I agree.


Their rationale is that it allows more space for more stuff to sell, therefore you can get an economic advantage. Since trading is allowed, and there is an economy, this effects gameplay.

Also they can not be earned by grinding, so you have to pay real money to get them.

Of course everyone has their own neat little definition of ptw, so consensus would be hard to agree to.

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Xtorma wrote:

not saying I agree.


Their rationale is that it allows more space for more stuff to sell, therefore you can get an economic advantage. Since trading is allowed, and there is an economy, this effects gameplay.

Also they can not be earned by grinding, so you have to pay real money to get them.

Of course everyone has their own neat little definition of ptw, so consensus would be hard to agree to.

I know that. But the question remains: How does this let you "Win" over or against other Players in a game like Path of Exile?

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AceNightfire wrote:

"

Xtorma wrote:

not saying I agree.


Their rationale is that it allows more space for more stuff to sell, therefore you can get an economic advantage. Since trading is allowed, and there is an economy, this effects gameplay.

Also they can not be earned by grinding, so you have to pay real money to get them.

Of course everyone has their own neat little definition of ptw, so consensus would be hard to agree to.

I know that. But the question remains: How does this let you "Win" over or against other Players in a game like Path of Exile?

That would depend on peoples definition of winning, which is going to be as varied as peoples definition of ptw.


Say for example , if a person measures success in poe as how much currency they have at the end of the league, then extra space will be seen as a huge advantage.

If you gauge success at how fast it takes to make 100, or how fast you get uber eldar on farm, this may not matter at all.

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Xtorma wrote:

That would depend on peoples definition of winning, which is going to be as varied as peoples definition of ptw.

Say for example , if a person measures success in poe as how much currency they have at the end of the league, then extra space will be seen as a huge advantage.

If you gauge success at how fast it takes to make 100, or how fast you get uber eldar on farm, this may not matter at all.

And that's the whole point. For me, it looks like the p2w argument is completely made up, so that players who cant or dont want to afford stashtabs actually get them for free.

But in fact, there is no real winning. There is no highscore that tells what player had the most currency at the end of the league. Sure, there is some kind of race at the start of every league "Who reached 100 first", but those players dont have the time to sell stuff anyway, so they dont benefit from stashtabs until they get the time to use it efficiently.

P2W in other games most of the time means: You have better/stronger equipment, you have better upgrade chances, you level up faster which gives you an advantage in PvP etc. etc. P2W is always in the context of competetive gaming, which isnt the case for PoE.

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AceNightfire wrote:

"

Xtorma wrote:

That would depend on peoples definition of winning, which is going to be as varied as peoples definition of ptw.

Say for example , if a person measures success in poe as how much currency they have at the end of the league, then extra space will be seen as a huge advantage.

If you gauge success at how fast it takes to make 100, or how fast you get uber eldar on farm, this may not matter at all.

And that's the whole point. For me, it looks like the p2w argument is completely made up, so that players who cant or dont want to afford stashtabs actually get them for free.

But in fact, there is no real winning. There is no highscore that tells what player had the most currency at the end of the league. Sure, there is some kind of race at the start of every league "Who reached 100 first", but those players dont have the time to sell stuff anyway, so they dont benefit from stashtabs until they get the time to use it efficiently.

P2W in other games most of the time means: You have better/stronger equipment, you have better upgrade chances, you level up faster which gives you an advantage in PvP etc. etc. P2W is always in the context of competetive gaming, which isnt the case for PoE.

You are not wrong, nor are the people who claim ptw. Only because it is based on a definition, that there is no standard for.

I still haven’t seen the calls to ban the game entirely. Does anybody deny it preys on this same gambling addiction with the nature of it’s rng reward system? Is there nobody addicted to this game? Since we seen to think we are the moral police and have to save the addicts who didn’t ask for help, where are the calls to ban the game? Or is it okay to take some things away from responsible people but not other things?

I hear people wanting to take loot boxes away from me, but are you willing to have the game taken away from you if I am addicted and can’t control myself, causing me to lose my family and job?

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ajo wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

But the question remains: How does this let you "Win" over or against other Players in a game like Path of Exile?

Don't get so fixated on the wording. P2W is commonly used to describe features that gives you advantages in game by paying money.

Cosmetics not p2w
Tabs is p2w

Actually it matters alot. And that's where the players are wrong. Progamers may have dozens of tabs, but when they start a league, they dont even use it alot. They simply dont have the time to use it. And guess what? They are still sooner rich then people who fully abuse those stash tabs right from the start. It doesnt let you win and it only provides a huge advantage to people who depend on selling alot of cheap stuff instead of clearing the good content and selling high profit items.

And lets not forget that you can sell stuff even without have premium stash tabs. So in the end it just saves you some time and give you more room. But you can easily play without it.

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ajo wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

And that's the whole point. For me, it looks like the p2w argument is completely made up, so that players who cant or dont want to afford stashtabs actually get them for free.

Actually the whole game is build around making you want more tabs.

There is a big difference between "wanting" and "needing". I need a car to get from A to B, but I want a Ferrari. It would be nice to have a Ferrari, but I certainly dont need one to get from A to B. I would just save some time since the car would be faster, but that's it. The media always tells me all the time what I "need", but if you think about it, there are not many things someone really needs. And Storagetabs are certainly not a feature someone "needs" to play this game or to be successful at it. But having them makes it a little bit easier, so people "want" them. And that's absolutely OK, since GGG must make money in some ways.

I mean, what comes next? People complaining about cosmetic stuff, because the normal character and armor design is to boring, so players feel forced to buy armor sets for like 40$+?