Stop the cheat death logout exploit

"

Zee wrote:

I grant that exiting the game 'to avoid death' could be considered an exploit of the games basic premise to a degree - the thing is, good players dont rely on it, even players that are good at it die plenty. (from what I have seen) It's a shitty exploit if it is one. for example, what if someone hits a portal and goes to town during a fight? -to a degree thats a worse exploit then exiting - in this story/premise sense. and it's more powerful because you can return faster and keep wearing down your target.

There is more to this though, it's not about just removing the players ability to exit combat quickly, it's more about what you have to do to prevent it.

Because someone could just make a killswitch for their network connection instead of using alt-f4, the game would need to force your character to just stand there and die if you lose connection for any reason. it would mean 10x more bullshit hc deaths. NTY

1) If you use a portal to get out you have to:
- Find the right positioning and timing to cast it
- You have to actually click it
- You have to stay alive while you do the above.

Hence, a portal IS NOT an exploit because to use it you have to IN GAME and risking death, mixed with skill (to use).

2) Preventing it is easy. I can think of a 2D game called Tibia (MMORPG) that if you were near an enemy you would be "in combat." You could exit the game whenever you wanted, but if you were in combat your character would stay in battle for 15 seconds or so after logout.

This effectively prevented quitting to avoid death and ensure ppl took encounters seriously.

3) You could make a killswitch for your connection, of course you could. But again, if "being in combat" had an X delay in logging out your character as stated in 2) above, it wouldn't help you.

4) I feel for people who get DC alot with things out of your control - it sucks. But realistically, this is not a developer issue, it's a ISP issue and your willingness to pay $.

- Try not to use WiFi and use a LAN cable
- Pay for a better internet

Maybe stop buying Starbucks everyday before work or energy drinks (for kiddies) and instead put that money aside. Bet it won't take long to save up 20-50 a month to pay for a better (or give your parents to pay for a better) internet.

5) A game should be played IN GAME. Using exploits to avoid death (network killswitch) or quitting to avoid death in-game is like playing....

A video game with ONE LIFE TO LIVE and INFINITE second lives. What is the fucking point?

Person-up (man-up)(woman-up) and play the game the way it was intended. Not exploiting things out of the game so you can say:

"ZOMG I MADE LVL 100 HC I'M SO GOD!!!"

#implementforcequitcounter to accounts pls

Would not you need an open portal macro in order to make opening a portal as effective/safe as a logout? I mean, would not opening a portal introduce a small delay (plus a possibility of driver error too)? If so, then we are back to discussing just how much delay should be tacked on to logout - which is not really my interest. My interest is reducing the SC Death Penalty in the nineties.

"

DrB00M wrote:

1) If you use a portal to get out you have to:
- Find the right positioning and timing to cast it

Stop with the nonsense for a second, clicking on a portal is not something that has any casting time as it is instant, and you can just put it before entering a dangerous situation ( ex = boss arenas ) very easily.
Boss cheezing through portal has been a legitimate thing to do from the very start of the game.

Portalling to town makes as much fucking sense as either getting kicked out of or exiting the game, you are opening a dimensional door that monsters can conveniently NEVER use, not even freaking Dominus.

"

DrB00M wrote:

4) I feel for people who get DC alot with things out of your control - it sucks. But realistically, this is not a developer issue, it's a ISP issue and your willingness to pay $.

- Try not to use WiFi and use a LAN cable
- Pay for a better internet

Maybe stop buying Starbucks everyday before work or energy drinks (for kiddies) and instead put that money aside. Bet it won't take long to save up 20-50 a month to pay for a better (or give your parents to pay for a better) internet.

Everybody is living right next to a GGG gateway, thank you for enlightening everybody
/s
( and of course you had to add some conescending **** to it, that goes without saying I guess heh )

"

DrB00M wrote:

Person-up (man-up)(woman-up) and play the game the way it was intended. Not exploiting things out of the game so you can say:

I am sorry, are you blind or deaf ? It has been said, literally said by GGG's lead developper that it is intended.

Looks like you just got it all wrong.
Thing is, you could have had it all wrong without being obnoxious.

"

AnExile_onthePath wrote:

Would not you need an open portal macro in order to make opening a portal as effective/safe as a logout? I mean, would not opening a portal introduce a small delay (plus a possibility of driver error too)? If so, then we are back to discussing just how much delay should be tacked on to logout - which is not really my interest. My interest is reducing the SC Death Penalty in the nineties.

Well, popping up a portal and going through it real quick is heavily dependant on the computer you're playing on and your internet connection.

Regarding the death penalty, this is not the topic at all I'm afraid.
There will always be a penalty on death, and it needs to be significant enough to be meaninful.

save money for better internet is not that easy sometimes ^^"
not everybody has a good connection anyway.
in germany we have mostly 1 provider. there are others, but they use the same cables. when there are problems, they mostly happen with every provider (at least where i live).
germany has not the best internet connection but it hasnt the worst.
so, what ppl do when theyr internet is much worse? they cant just pay money and get a better connection. thats not how it works XD

EDIT: when i talk about "better" i talk about "more stable" because the up/down speed does not matter that much with online games, 20kbs are completely fine for gaming.

EDIT2:
i know tibia btw, its a rly cool game and one of my first mmorpgs loooong time ago.
i still play it here and there and its still fun. real hardcore games are rare this days.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

AnExile_onthePath wrote:

Would not you need an open portal macro in order to make opening a portal as effective/safe as a logout? I mean, would not opening a portal introduce a small delay (plus a possibility of driver error too)? If so, then we are back to discussing just how much delay should be tacked on to logout - which is not really my interest. My interest is reducing the SC Death Penalty in the nineties.

Well, popping up a portal and going through it real quick is heavily dependant on the computer you're playing on and your internet connection.

Regarding the death penalty, this is not the topic at all I'm afraid.
There will always be a penalty on death, and it needs to be significant enough to be meaninful.

Well I think that some of the previous postings have established that there are differing opinions on whether the Death Penalty is a related topic to Logout or not. The comment that got my attention was the one regarding someone who both advocated for a strong Death Penalty but then used Logout to avoid that penalty and whether this was consistent. I feel that the core issue with the SC Death Penalty is that in its current form, it is vastly more significant to some players versus others (I measure significance in hours of lost experience). It's speculation on my part of course, but I suspect that the availability of "consequence free" Logout to SC players has encouraged GGG to set the SC Death Penalty higher than what it might be if the Logout option was not without consequence (part of the balancing process). I do not play HC nor do I have any plans to ever play HC and so I try to leave how HC should be handled to HC players. I have no wish to decimate the HC ranks however.

"

Fruz wrote:

Stop with the nonsense for a second, clicking on a portal is not something that has any casting time as it is instant, and you can just put it before entering a dangerous situation ( ex = boss arenas ) very easily.
Boss cheezing through portal has been a legitimate thing to do from the very start of the game.

Portalling to town makes as much fucking sense as either getting kicked out of or exiting the game, you are opening a dimensional door that monsters can conveniently NEVER use, not even freaking Dominus.

If you (or game developer) would felt, that using a portal scroll also provides too easy escape, it could be changed as well. For example, in combat, few seconds casting time could be added to using portal scroll. If you endure that - then you deserve the right to escape from combat (cause you were a sitting duck during those few seconds).
There are many way to determine, whether character is "in combat" or not. For example, using timer since damage was taken last time (aka to ES recharge mechanics), or using vicinity to enemies, or some other method. The majority of MMORPGs uses those.

"

Fruz wrote:

Everybody is living right next to a GGG gateway, thank you for enlightening everybody
/s
( and of course you had to add some conescending **** to it, that goes without saying I guess heh )

Why DoTA2 almost never experiences such issues?
As game developer, If you cant afford great connection for your fellow players, you dont have any right to design your game in the way PoE is designed (death penalty, hardcore, etc, etc). It's just a common sense.

"

Fruz wrote:

I am sorry, are you blind or deaf ? It has been said, literally said by GGG's lead developper that it is intended.

If authority man speaks bullshit, it's still BULLSHIT!
Do you really believe, that you can justify crappy design just saying "it's intended in my game, so it's OK"? Really?

"

AnExile_onthePath wrote:

I feel that the core issue with the SC Death Penalty is that in its current form, it is vastly more significant to some players versus others (I measure significance in hours of lost experience). It's speculation on my part of course, but I suspect that the availability of "consequence free" Logout to SC players has encouraged GGG to set the SC Death Penalty higher than what it might be if the Logout option was not without consequence (part of the balancing process).

That could be solved by establishing a death penalty by time and not by percentage. It means, if you die you lose the exp that you've gained in the last X played time (not counting AFK or logout time).

But it doesn't solve the "problem" of HC using this. And I say "problem", with quotation marks. All my SC characters except for 1 were once HC. I never used this "cheat" and they all ended up dead sooner or later, ok. I don't care, I'll play HC again in a few hours. But what do I win or lose for others using or not using that "cheat"? I don't feel good using it, but it is my choice! Why should I care if others do? They don't harm me or my play-style, I'm not going to enjoy the game less.

Still at the risk of sounding rude, I'll say: mind your own business! Whoever doesn't like to use this "exploit", me included, won't use it no matter if it's intended or not. Just follow your path, exiles, without looking at others' with magnifying glass.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

I am sorry, are you blind or deaf ? It has been said, literally said by GGG's lead developper that it is intended.

If authority man speaks bullshit, it's still BULLSHIT!
Do you really believe, that you can justify crappy design just saying "it's intended in my game, so it's OK"? Really?

GGG thinks and says that all the changes they do are good and well tested.
What developers say is often BS.

I suppose the main question is, does it really matter what other players are doing?

*Alt+F4's out of the conversation before the stones hit him in the head*

"

Lykkoith wrote:

"

AnExile_onthePath wrote:

I feel that the core issue with the SC Death Penalty is that in its current form, it is vastly more significant to some players versus others (I measure significance in hours of lost experience). It's speculation on my part of course, but I suspect that the availability of "consequence free" Logout to SC players has encouraged GGG to set the SC Death Penalty higher than what it might be if the Logout option was not without consequence (part of the balancing process).

"

Lykkoith wrote:

That could be solved by establishing a death penalty by time and not by percentage. It means, if you die you lose the exp that you've gained in the last X played time (not counting AFK or logout time).

I could totally go for that. My point is, and has been, that I believe that the Logout thing being available to SC is one of the things standing in the way of that ever happening (the argument of "who needs that when you could just logout?")

"

Lykkoith wrote:

But it doesn't solve the "problem" of HC using this. And I say "problem", with quotation marks. All my SC characters except for 1 were once HC. I never used this "cheat" and they all ended up dead sooner or later, ok. I don't care, I'll play HC again in a few hours. But what do I win or lose for others using or not using that "cheat"? I don't feel good using it, but it is my choice! Why should I care if others do? They don't harm me or my play-style, I'm not going to enjoy the game less.

A noble sentiment and I respect your personal stand, and that you choose to restrict your interest to your own game play. Myself, regarding Logout, I am not concerned that others are "getting ahead of me unfairly, or otherwise" but that all of SC are all being penalized to compensate for it.

"

Lykkoith wrote:

Still at the risk of sounding rude, I'll say: mind your own business! Whoever doesn't like to use this "exploit", me included, won't use it no matter if it's intended or not. Just follow your path, exiles, without looking at others' with magnifying glass.

It does not sound rude, it just sounds like you have not read all the posts in the thread (and we all do that at times).

A quote from myself on page 4:

For me, the concept of opportunity cost enters in here. My opportunity cost is the re-balance that GGG would seem forced to do if the logout thing was eliminated/replaced. But I hear you regarding HC in the short term. So why not apply a short-term remedy to SC only (bit of a personal peeve here, I weary of being told that the SC DB Penalty is just fine as it is). Then GGG does the re-balance and then, they address HC.

I think it was clear that I am even prepared to endorse the heresy of providing HC with something different in order to patch things up on the SC side. I totally agree that HC needs something more than SC does. My issue is that I believe SC is currently harmed as a result of the HC remedy applying to SC and I would gladly sever the link.