Stop the cheat death logout exploit

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

And alternatives are actually better - make a game where you cant instantly escape danger in any moment, and balance encounters accordingly, so players will have more time to react on dangers. That's how good games are designed.

Yea, then lets rebalance the whole game FIRST, then we can talk about adding a timer to exit on alt-f4. Not before.

the problem with rebalancing and 'removing' burst damage is players will just go to more dangerous areas roll harder maps, and the game would be slower paced thus more boring for many in general- power creep as it is - is something GGG has a hard time turning down for this reason ALREADY. Also then people will just get really good at portaling to town when in danger - and THAT would be 2 or 3 times more effective then alt-f4 if there is no burst damage to worry about. (overall, I'm not totally against the idea though- just skeptical it could work)

The way I see it, you want to rebalance the whole game to (possibly make it a quite different game in the process) to address a problem that really does not affect many people. The real issue with alt-f4 IMO, is the players that cheat using auto-logouts when their HP gets low. And there ARE ways to deal with them without adding a timer after the client is closed punishing HC players who lose connection or lag out. -it DOES happen.

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Zee wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

And alternatives are actually better - make a game where you cant instantly escape danger in any moment, and balance encounters accordingly, so players will have more time to react on dangers. That's how good games are designed.

Yea, then lets rebalance the whole game FIRST, then we can talk about adding a timer to exit on alt-f4. Not before.

the problem with rebalancing and 'removing' burst damage is players will just go to more dangerous areas roll harder maps, and the game would be slower paced thus more boring for many in general- power creep as it is - is something GGG has a hard time turning down for this reason ALREADY. Also then people will just get really good at portaling to town when in danger - and THAT would be 2 or 3 times more effective then alt-f4 if there is no burst damage to worry about. (overall, I'm not totally against the idea though- just skeptical it could work)

The way I see it, you want to rebalance the whole game to (possibly make it a quite different game in the process) to address a problem that really does not affect many people. The real issue with alt-f4 IMO, is the players that cheat using auto-logouts when their HP gets low. And there ARE ways to deal with them without adding a timer after the client is closed punishing HC players who lose connection or lag out. -it DOES happen.

So I found myself nodding my head in agreement with much of your post - I may not align with you on conclusions, but I appreciate your reasoned approach.

One thing that I did not really see was "to address a problem that really does not affect many people".

For me, the concept of opportunity cost enters in here. My opportunity cost is the re-balance that GGG would seem forced to do if the logout thing was eliminated/replaced. But I hear you regarding HC in the short term. So why not apply a short-term remedy to SC only (bit of a personal peeve here, I weary of being told that the SC DB Penalty is just fine as it is). Then GGG does the re-balance and then, they address HC.

Well some players don't want to cheat and are punished its stupid

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Rakiii wrote:

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Marxone wrote:

And yes, this was from the very start. It is also one of the "mechanics" they were balancing the game overall - that if you misjudge situation and charge into pack of bearers, you can try to log out and survive.
It is to promote more active play.

But in fact it´s doing the opposite and instead of playing the game and deal with the situation you just click (or macro does it for you) the button and avoid the situation. Poor design at best.

Maybe it's doing the opposite in your case.

If logging out to escape some situations was not possible, many ( especially in HC ) would likely chicken much more while playing the game, and not 'chicken out' as log out, but skip more bosses, avoid more map mods, etc ... play more passive in short.

I remember when Ziz tried to kill Chayula in breach, and that was pretty damn intense.
He would have never gone in there if there was no option to leave the game instantly, because that definitely is what the game is balanced around.

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pphnx wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

Chris specifically stated it is literally intended.

Statstick damage bonuses on attack skills WERE also intended.

Better luck next time.

Do you have other silly / irrelevant / off-topic things to add ?

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

i don't think it's quite "intended," as much as it was always allowed beacuse alt+f4 is a windows command and there's pretty much nothing ggg could do about it.

In online game, it isnt an issue at all, lol.

Yeah, there is a very obvious way to not allow it ...

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Nightstone13 wrote:

For experienced players it is an exploit... You usually know when things are going bad. Hot binding exit to a mouse button makes it the simplest thing to do.

I struggled with Delve early on then finally got it. 1 yellow supermob cavestalker shows up no biggie. 2 show up and try to leave them behind with movement skills. 3 show up and its time to leave and redo the that leg.

Let's take a bloodline + nemesis + inc AOE and some random damage mod Delve segment.

You arrive at the encounter ( let's go with Devourers ) :
You have 5 lightning warp totem on your ass, you blow up half of the screen and .... 80% of the arena is covered with bearers, one volatile on one side, 3 stacks of lightning mirage on your face, still mobs everywhere, and another nemesis mod and you have 6 vine snare stacks on you.

Are you going to tell me that all of this was predictable, and it's a player error to not have foreseen all of it ?
This kind of situation is possible because loging out is a thing.


I'm not saying that it's the best possible design or anything, that's just the way it is.

Intentionnal or not its a stupid design decision.

Its a like an unlimited free out of jail card lmao

That's not going to change unless the community at large wants to cut down on the speed clear meta. The reason we even have this exploit, and is even encouraged, is because the game has a ridiculous amount of damage which can cause BS deaths. BS deaths exist, because it's necessary to give enemies a remote chance at killing players who typically clear entire screens with a button press.

You kill players' abilities to delete screens, you remove the need for absurd enemy kills. You remove the need for absurd enemy kills, you remove the need for alt+f4 being an acceptable method to avoid death in HC.

This isn't ever going to happen.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

That's not going to change unless the community at large wants to cut down on the speed clear meta. The reason we even have this exploit, and is even encouraged, is because the game has a ridiculous amount of damage which can cause BS deaths. BS deaths exist, because it's necessary to give enemies a remote chance at killing players who typically clear entire screens with a button press.

You kill players' abilities to delete screens, you remove the need for absurd enemy kills. You remove the need for absurd enemy kills, you remove the need for alt+f4 being an acceptable method to avoid death in HC.

This isn't ever going to happen.

Unfortunately, I do agree with that overall.

If it ever goes down that road (which it won't imo), portals would need a cast time too though.

Escape, move mouse, and click Exit to logon... A script ok ?
I don't have a PS4, not sure if they can do it easily.

GGG need to add the hotkey in game, with a 0-2 seconds delay, this will resolve the issue.

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Universalis wrote:

Escape, move mouse, and click Exit to logon... A script ok ?
I don't have a PS4, not sure if they can do it easily.

GGG need to add the hotkey in game, with a 0-2 seconds delay, this will resolve the issue.

you can't be as fast as alt-f4 but you can close the app in under 2secs

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Fruz wrote:

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Rakiii wrote:

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Marxone wrote:

And yes, this was from the very start. It is also one of the "mechanics" they were balancing the game overall - that if you misjudge situation and charge into pack of bearers, you can try to log out and survive.
It is to promote more active play.

But in fact it´s doing the opposite and instead of playing the game and deal with the situation you just click (or macro does it for you) the button and avoid the situation. Poor design at best.

Maybe it's doing the opposite in your case.

If logging out to escape some situations was not possible, many ( especially in HC ) would likely chicken much more while playing the game, and not 'chicken out' as log out, but skip more bosses, avoid more map mods, etc ... play more passive in short.

I remember when Ziz tried to kill Chayula in breach, and that was pretty damn intense.
He would have never gone in there if there was no option to leave the game instantly, because that definitely is what the game is balanced around.

Sure game is balanced around "one shots" "spike damage" and should be rebalanced as mentioned before imo.
Btw there are some weird situation ingame. You can´t tp out while fighting Elder / Shaper but you can log out?
Relying on third party tools is not a good idea. They should rebalance the game properly or "add chicken tool" but I think it´s clear what´s preferred.