Hardmode / Veteranmode

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Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

[...]

It had nothing to do with shortcoming (the game is being successful).


And yes, full of salt from the start in many ways, which is pretty much the only reason you would have to feel that need to specify "Tencent" in front of "GGG" every single time lol.

Salt box

'
- stuff about "White knights"
- This game's 'Hardcore' is not difficult !!
- I hate GGG's design decision
- I know what real hardcore means
- Diversity is a myth in PoE
'
etc .... even if it's not the point or topic.
And it's also derailing.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

To improve, it needs to bring "diversity" back and appeal to an even higher playerbase.

For the nth time, attracting bigger crowd is very likely not going to push the game in the way you would like to see it pushed, at all.
This IS already the way to cater to a big player base, GGG have been doing that for a while already, and it has been working so far.

The only thing that "money" would solve and please everyone would be the technical issues, because that part would be better improved, and I don't see why anybody would dislike that.

But if you think that Tencent is going to going to drastically slow the game down (because let's be honest, that's what you've been waiting for a long time) right after acquiring all of it .....

( hint : they don't want to kill a game that they just bought )

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Orbaal wrote:

Careful what you wish for - you might get it and hate it with passion :)
Just saying

There you go, somebody with some pragmatism.

As successful as it is, PoE could be a lot more successful still - there are good reasons why it has retention problems and doesn't seem to progress on the "western front"...

Since Tencent bought GGG, whenever I talk about the company, I will use TencentGGG. Deal with it, or not, it's your choice.

0% salt, unfortunately for you:

- "white knights" ensure PoE doesn't achieve it's potential so we should "thank them" for a lot of unresolved shortcomings, some which lead to players requesting a "harder mode"

- "Hardcore" in PoE is not difficult, or not difficult enough, or no one would ask for a different even more "hardcore" mode - that happens when instead of "real" difficulty, out of players control aspects are preferred to keep a "semblance" of one, and when you're supposed to "chicken out" from the dangerous situations instead of resolving them

- a lot of TencentGGG's design decisions should have made sense, either with a more immediate impact, or leading to a "master plan" for a set moment, unfortunately that is not the case and you can see how most of them are leading to this point, where players ask for a "fair difficulty" mode

- as someone that actually plays "Hardcore" modes on games that aren't as susceptible as PoE to every "Internet hiccup", you can bet anything that as soon as PoE gets an offline version, I will play ONLY the "Hardcore mode" - since Mario I enjoy having difficulty "cranked to 11", but as I don't live at <10 miles from a PoE server, you'll never see me even start the game in that "hardcore" mode, as I simply loath having no control over various aspects that will render my enjoyment NULL (their decision to balance the damage spikes around players "instantly logging out" would be "fine and dandy if PoE was the "paramount of stability and reliability" regarding Internet connections and technical performance, and that was/is/will be a "pipe dream"), hence a more fair and more difficult mode for PoE would be welcomed by a large part of the community who shares my views

- "diversity" started to be killed the second "opie-op meta" anything became the "@#%&&| mirage" and not only "the BEST way to play the game", but was lead to become "the way to play the game", so us "scrubs" which disregard it got shafted with every passing update because of TencentGGG decisions, and still some of us want "real difficulty and diversity" to be brought back, even if it takes a new mode for them to do so

Etc. - funny how all those points were actually "on topic" and were not "derailing" the thread...

Attracting "the bigger crowd" will push the game in the way that the game needs, and doesn't automatically exclude the way that I want. Besides, I adapt quite easily, and even then the game simply needs to "make sense" for the "big crowd" and all those "fringe groups" - it will take more dedication, sure, more improvements, sure, but it's far from impossible and it was actually promised a long time ago, you should remember that, and stop granting TencentGGG a free pass regarding this specific aspect - custom leagues will address all those groups at once...

The technical aspects (at least those of the sensibility of PoE regarding the Internet connection) should be resolve even if they have to rebuild the entire game from scratch for 4.0/5.0, even just to let everyone experience PoE as "intended". The financial backing will be essential for this.

Oh, no one is talking about slowing the game down - although some limits regarding those "smart interactions" and some diminishing returns regarding unlimited MS would be welcomed - but grantig each combat style a purpose and a specific utility instead. I like PoE slow, but I also enjoy it very fast at times, I'm not having a problem with the speed, but with the lack of purpose of various skills, items, mechanics or interactions, which shouldn't have happened in the first place, but also should be resolved ASAP as they got implemented in such a lackluster way...

I know what I'm asking (I'm asking a lot from PoE and it's further development) because I want PoE to succeed a lot more and reach it's potential. If everyone would become complacent and satisfied with minimal improvements, the game wouldn't progress. Thankfully, some of us want the game to improve, as there still is a lot of room for that...

.

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vmt80 wrote:

Well, in market economy it doesn't always follow that the best way equals reaching the biggest consumer group.

Sure, Tencent can do that, but there's also most competitors catering to biggest target audiences. Therefore sometimes catering smaller fringe groups can in fact be more profitable, if it entails its own ecological niche.

Just pointing out.

That's how PoE started.
Should we compared the "original" beta-like PoE with the current PoE, and the audience / money that it brings ?

But yes, cattering to the biggest audience that many games are fighting for already isn't always the way to make money of course.
PoE being an Arpg with a certain level of complexity makes it an already Niche market, but it has obviously spread to more casual audiences ( still kinda niche ) since it started, which is definitely beneficial for GGG ( and now Tencent ).

"

Second, the fact that map mods grant IIQ and pack size (which in turn means yet more IIQ) makes running non-alched maps completely unfeasible. You need all the IIQ/pack size you can get to sustain maps.


Third, map mods often do nothing to actually increase difficulty. Who cares about increased monster damage/crit chance when you blow up entire packs before they can even hit you? Who cares about Dodge being Unlucky if your build has no Dodge to begin with?

Are you actually implying that forcing people to run mods increasing the difficulty .... is actually a bad thing ?

And check the top HC ladders.
News flash : people still rip, and they don't rip from white maps.

Even though I'd agree that power creep allows to trivialize too many things maybe.

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RogueMage wrote:

Would you like a more exciting and challenging version of PoE? One that plunges you into the thick of the carnage, assaulted from all sides by raging maniacs with little or no warning? Would you like to see things literally blow up in your face as you watch your victims' luridly animated, agonizing death throes?

Simply zoom the game all the way down to the ground.

What happens then? No more omniscient birds-eye-view of the anthill, no more nuking everything in sight from the other side of the screen. Try that with an over-the-shoulder, in-your-face view of the battlefield and you'll see nothing but gratuitous SFX obliterate your entire screen. If you actually want to fight the hordes rather than mow them down like weeds, you'll need to use tactics and melee skills that allow you to observe their behavior and anticipate their moves. You must also prepare to be ambushed at any time and listen for the sound effects that can tip you off. The payoff? Not just the satisfaction of prevailing with the odds stacked against you, but the gorgeously rendered panorama of a lethally enchanted wonderland.

Stick with this discipline, and you might discover the game is not just a one-dimensional DPS-uber-alles slaughter-fest. There actually are damage mitigation and potentiation strategies that work, life-recovery mechanisms you can rely on, and subtle leverage factors you won't see reported in tool-tips. For all but the cheesiest one-shot uber-boss cage fights, you can master the game with as little as 5K HP and 50K DPS, without spending obscene amounts of currency on prefabricated meta-builds.

Just two major improvements I'd like GGG to implement to make fully zoomed-in gameplay practical:

1. Revise map layouts to eliminate foreground blockage of your character in tight passages.

2. Provide a 90-degree view-rotation command, allowing us to keep the action in front of us.

I have to say that could provide some fun ... if only the game was balanced with this in mind.
But it would be fun trying at least !

"

Koskii wrote:

They implemented SSF and uber elder for a fringe group as well so thats not a valid argument.

Let's not forget that they did that because players were already playing the game this way, the community already did exist.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

As successful as it is, PoE could be a lot more successful still - there are good reasons why it has retention problems and doesn't seem to progress on the "western front"...

Let's stop right there :
you don't know what design decisions would actualy make it more successful, you don't know at all, period.
And even if you don't realize it, if dev would listen and follow everything you say, PoE would die within couple of months.

By the way, try to start a conversation with old-school FF fans with a "Square Enix did such a good job making FFVI and FFVII, don't you guys agree ?" and see how it goes LOL.
Saying that "TencentGGG" did x and y speaking of PoE ( since you know, they haven't actually done anything yet ) is utterly stupid, for obvious reasons.
Speaking of what plans has "TencentGGG" from now on is a different thing though, although it's still pretty pointless imho.

The rest is just an actual display of salt and bitterness ( bringing the same things over and over and over again ), and some silly excuses that I'm not going to quote.

"

Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

As successful as it is, PoE could be a lot more successful still - there are good reasons why it has retention problems and doesn't seem to progress on the "western front"...

Let's stop right there :
you don't know what design decisions would actualy make it more successful, you don't know at all, period.
And even if you don't realize it, if dev would listen and follow everything you say, PoE would die within couple of months.

By the way, try to start a conversation with old-school FF fans with a "Square Enix did such a good job making FFVI and FFVII, don't you guys agree ?" and see how it goes LOL.
Saying that "TencentGGG" did x and y speaking of PoE ( since you know, they haven't actually done anything yet ) is utterly stupid, for obvious reasons.
Speaking of what plans has "TencentGGG" from now on is a different thing though, although it's still pretty pointless imho.

The rest is just an actual display of salt and bitterness ( bringing the same things over and over and over again ), and some silly excuses that I'm not going to quote.

So I don't know what design decisions would make PoE more successful, even though PoE has stagnated and advanced quite slowly into gaining some ground all these years. Fine, I will agree with you on this point.

My suggestions and feedback is still better than simply "rambling" that "PoE would die within a couple of months, if dev would listen and follow EVERYTHING I say" - they need to at least acknowledge the problems that I present and think about the proposed solutions, while further thinking for even better ones, while ultimately improve all those aspects - and I never said they need to follow everything, as I never talked about everything, but when I started threads and discussed various aspects I did started with the problem and presented various solutions and their implications, as a fair starting point at least.

There is NO SALT, but I will concede for a small amount of bitterness, which comes with bringing into their attention the problems and seeing them neglected as the years go by...

And I made no silly excuse ever. As I respect your point of view even when I'm on a different side, you should start to do it too.

It also seems you don't want to discuss the subject with me anymore, since you stoop so low and fail to provide counter-arguments.

So sorry to see you fighting solely to impose your view and not to improve the views of others...

Actually, I was associating bitterness and salt.

I'm not trying to impose my view, I'm more pointing out that some pragmatism would be more than welcome.



(And come on, "no HC if not within 10 miles ?" do you think that all those HC racers are living within 10 miles of PoE's server ? Because I can safely tell you that they aren't.
The nearest server from my city is about 1000 kms away, and the connection I have is stable enough to play HC this league for example. It's not perfect, but nothing is, and before it was added the nearest was like 6k km, not only land .... and it was still quite correct).

PS : No, I'm not going to go over topic "discussed" already many times, and with you too I'm pretty sure.

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Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

Actually, I was associating bitterness and salt.

I'm not trying to impose my view, I'm more pointing out that some pragmatism would be more than welcome.



(And come on, "no HC if not within 10 miles ?" do you think that all those HC racers are living within 10 miles of PoE's server ? Because I can safely tell you that they aren't.
The nearest server from my city is about 1000 kms away, and the connection I have is stable enough to play HC this league for example. It's not perfect, but nothing is, and before it was added the nearest was like 6k km, not only land .... and it was still quite correct).

PS : No, I'm not going to go over topic "discussed" already many times, and with you too I'm pretty sure.

I might have been more critic (read bitter) than necessary, but with all the "pragmatism" "more than welcomed" they need some incentive to think about all the shortcomings and how to improve them.

I have a different view on "Hardcore" as I loath being pigeon holed into not having full control over my character 100% of the time, and not to mention the sad fact that when a trace renders connection problems somewhere a lot closer to the server than myself, you can't even signal them to do something about, or your ISP too as it's out of their hands. I could play with something that "works good enough", but why do so and live with the fear that you could lose all progress without being at fault? Any serious old school "hardcore" gamer would just say "no, thank you", and play as "hardcore" on softcore and have the "back vertebra" to delete entire accounts upon a "fair" death, especially if he streams...

So lets agree to disagree, and keep our own views, I'm completely OK with that...

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Fruz wrote:

Let's stop right there :
you don't know what design decisions would actualy make it more successful, you don't know at all, period.

Oh man. We must need an expert's opinions instead of player feedback.

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Fruz wrote:

And even if you don't realize it, if dev would listen and follow everything you say, PoE would die within couple of months.

Oh. You must be that expert. I guess GGG should close these feedback forums and only listen to you.

These posts + private profile are what I live for.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

I could play with something that "works good enough", but why do so and live with the fear that you could lose all progress without being at fault? Any serious old school "hardcore" gamer would just say "no, thank you", and play as "hardcore" on softcore and have the "back vertebra" to delete entire accounts upon a "fair" death, especially if he streams...

No.

Any serious "hardcore" (here, I am using the PoE technical term) players knows that ripping happens from time to time and lives with it.

Plus, what would you have to loose ? You are playing in standard so ....


I can agree to disagree, seeing the same thing pretty much said again in many different threads of the forum can be annoying at times though, I'm sure that you understand.
I guess I should try to ignore that part maybe.

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SudianX wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

Let's stop right there :
you don't know what design decisions would actualy make it more successful, you don't know at all, period.

Oh man. We must need an expert's opinions instead of player feedback.

"

Fruz wrote:

And even if you don't realize it, if dev would listen and follow everything you say, PoE would die within couple of months.

Oh. You must be that expert. I guess GGG should close these feedback forums and only listen to you.

Thanks you so so much for your contribution.

Cheers.

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Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

I could play with something that "works good enough", but why do so and live with the fear that you could lose all progress without being at fault? Any serious old school "hardcore" gamer would just say "no, thank you", and play as "hardcore" on softcore and have the "back vertebra" to delete entire accounts upon a "fair" death, especially if he streams...

No.

Any serious "hardcore" (here, I am using the PoE technical term) players knows that ripping happens from time to time and lives with it.

Plus, what would you have to loose ? You are playing in standard so ....


I can agree to disagree, seeing the same thing pretty much said again in many different threads of the forum can be annoying at times though, I'm sure that you understand.
I guess I should try to ignore that part maybe.

No.

Having "unfair ripping" is why "hardcore" in PoE got the way it is. Sure, some "threw the towel" and enjoy the ride, but those that are really serious prefer FULL CONTROL and to get "shafted" ONLY due to THEIR OWN MISTAKES.

You lose everything every time you delete your account, and sure, you could argue that the economy is a lot more "forgiving", but SSF still became a mode acknowledged, and such "hardcore" persons would be more inclined to prefer it due to it having 0 difference from the provided "default hardcore".

I know, we both tend to be as "stubborn" as other long time PoE players that spend their times on the forum, and most times, we all have very satisfying arguments to support our views.

Regardless, the game should improve to increase enjoyment and bring those minimal standards that lead to that a lot higher...