Hardmode / Veteranmode

"
Orbaal wrote:
Spoiler
"
sofocle10000 wrote:

Right now, with the Tencent acquisition, TencentGGG has a lot of "backing" and they need to use it to tackle the problems and the lackluster aspects...


Sorry mate - this is just flat wrong.


GGG didnt get a single cent from Tencent and GGG wont get money from them.
The only ones who got money out of the deal are the 3 founders of the company.

I´ve read this a lot on the forums and people need to understand:
GGG doesnt get any sort of money from china, they have to pay money now to Tencent. So its the other way around.


The argument "Well they got so much money, so I dont need to support them anymore and GGG might as well start doing _____" couldnt be further from the truth. If there are enough people falling for this, GGG will be bankrupt in no time.


tl;dr:
Chris is rich now, GGG isnt.


Right, but just take a look at Tencent interest in those "bought game licenses". They "back" them regardless of your point of view, or mine, as long as they are "shinny" and "attractive" to players around the world, not to mention China.

Sure, Tencent and GGG are separate entities still, but the chinese client is specially tailored to certain specifications - it has its own AH just like the XBOX version has - so you can't say that Tencent would make a "wrong" choice and acquire GGG if they didn't want to see them succeed further...

To succeed further, PoE needs to improve.

To improve, it needs to bring "diversity" back and appeal to an even higher playerbase.

The easiest way to do that is to make PoE more complex for those players that want that - see the topic of the thread - and still not disregard all those that would simply enjoy mind numbing grinds and speed while watching casually a TV series in the same time they play...

It's up to TencentGGG to address these aspects, and I sincerely hope they will do so in the "best way" possible...

Meanwhile, I will "vote with my wallet", thank you very much, and the current PoE state doesn't provide ANY INCENTIVE FOR ME TO "SUPPORT" IT AT ALL...
PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...

Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...
Last edited by sofocle10000 on Jul 23, 2018, 10:15:42 AM
"
sofocle10000 wrote:
"
Orbaal wrote:
Spoiler
"
sofocle10000 wrote:

Right now, with the Tencent acquisition, TencentGGG has a lot of "backing" and they need to use it to tackle the problems and the lackluster aspects...


Sorry mate - this is just flat wrong.


GGG didnt get a single cent from Tencent and GGG wont get money from them.
The only ones who got money out of the deal are the 3 founders of the company.

I´ve read this a lot on the forums and people need to understand:
GGG doesnt get any sort of money from china, they have to pay money now to Tencent. So its the other way around.


The argument "Well they got so much money, so I dont need to support them anymore and GGG might as well start doing _____" couldnt be further from the truth. If there are enough people falling for this, GGG will be bankrupt in no time.


tl;dr:
Chris is rich now, GGG isnt.



To succeed further, PoE needs to improve.

To improve, it needs to bring "diversity" back and appeal to an even higher playerbase.

The easiest way to do that is to make PoE more complex for those players that want that - see the topic of the thread - and still not disregard all those that would simply enjoy mind numbing grinds and speed while watching casually a TV series in the same time they play...

It's up to TencentGGG to address these aspects, and I sincerely hope they will do so in the "best way" possible...


I get what you are saying, but you really shouldnt hope for the "best way" possible ;)

"Best way" - from an economical point of view, which is the only point of view that matters - is to NOT support fringe groups, not catering to everyone. Because thats an insane amount of work, means a lot of money needs to be invested.
Its much more efficient to cater to biggest group(s) only (not in terms of actual people but generated income) and ignore the existence of other groups - because they are financially irrelevant.

If these fringe groups start to "vote with their wallet", they are not helping their cause.
A financial evaluation afterwards would come the only valid conclusion: Not worth wasting dev-time (read money) on those groups, because there is no Return On Investment, therefore dumb decision.

Careful what you wish for - you might get it and hate it with passion :)
Just saying
"
Orbaal wrote:
Spoiler
"
sofocle10000 wrote:
"
Orbaal wrote:


Sorry mate - this is just flat wrong.


GGG didnt get a single cent from Tencent and GGG wont get money from them.
The only ones who got money out of the deal are the 3 founders of the company.

I´ve read this a lot on the forums and people need to understand:
GGG doesnt get any sort of money from china, they have to pay money now to Tencent. So its the other way around.


The argument "Well they got so much money, so I dont need to support them anymore and GGG might as well start doing _____" couldnt be further from the truth. If there are enough people falling for this, GGG will be bankrupt in no time.


tl;dr:
Chris is rich now, GGG isnt.



To succeed further, PoE needs to improve.

To improve, it needs to bring "diversity" back and appeal to an even higher playerbase.

The easiest way to do that is to make PoE more complex for those players that want that - see the topic of the thread - and still not disregard all those that would simply enjoy mind numbing grinds and speed while watching casually a TV series in the same time they play...

It's up to TencentGGG to address these aspects, and I sincerely hope they will do so in the "best way" possible...


I get what you are saying, but you really shouldnt hope for the "best way" possible ;)

"Best way" - from an economical point of view, which is the only point of view that matters - is to NOT support fringe groups, not catering to everyone. Because thats an insane amount of work, means a lot of money needs to be invested.
Its much more efficient to cater to biggest group(s) only (not in terms of actual people but generated income) and ignore the existence of other groups - because they are financially irrelevant.

If these fringe groups start to "vote with their wallet", they are not helping their cause.
A financial evaluation afterwards would come the only valid conclusion: Not worth wasting dev-time (read money) on those groups, because there is no Return On Investment, therefore dumb decision.

Careful what you wish for - you might get it and hate it with passion :)
Just saying


Heh, that depends.

That "best way" also needs PoE to cater for an "audience". TencentGGG think that those "veterans" should "pick up their shop" and find another game? Fine, but they need to remember that PoE got where it is exactly due to them. It's not a "financial impossibility" to "throw them a bone".

This member of said "fringe groups" supported GGG before the Tencent acquisition even when he wasn't in accord with their choices, and you can check my post history, if my titles/badges aren't sufficient, I even did a lot more than most of the playerbase, by providing useful FEEDBACK AND SUGGESTIONS. What did I get in return? Less and less "fun" as some of their choices and their reluctance to solve PoEs "real problems" brought the game to a shallow husk of what it was before. Not to mention that our "fringe group" $$$ wasn't sufficient to sway them to keep improving.

I always said that as long as PoE will still provide me some "fun", I'll keep my investment, but as soon as it doesn't I will leave and not look back, because I know I did more than my part.

If we're not "taxing" them even in the "darkest hour", TecentGGG will remain with the impression that they can do anything and everyone will be "OK" with it. NO MORE.

It's long past due they kept some of their promises and don't squander PoEs potential away.

By the way, as I'm such a casual n00b hoarder, I will be "OK" for a long time with a lot of ASININE decisions, the questions is will TencentGGG be "OK" too? I hope not...
PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...

Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...
"
sofocle10000 wrote:
[...]

It had nothing to do with shortcoming (the game is being successful).


And yes, full of salt from the start in many ways, which is pretty much the only reason you would have to feel that need to specify "Tencent" in front of "GGG" every single time lol.
Salt box

'
- stuff about "White knights"
- This game's 'Hardcore' is not difficult !!
- I hate GGG's design decision
- I know what real hardcore means
- Diversity is a myth in PoE
'
etc .... even if it's not the point or topic.
And it's also derailing.




"
sofocle10000 wrote:

To improve, it needs to bring "diversity" back and appeal to an even higher playerbase.

For the nth time, attracting bigger crowd is very likely not going to push the game in the way you would like to see it pushed, at all.
This IS already the way to cater to a big player base, GGG have been doing that for a while already, and it has been working so far.

The only thing that "money" would solve and please everyone would be the technical issues, because that part would be better improved, and I don't see why anybody would dislike that.

But if you think that Tencent is going to going to drastically slow the game down (because let's be honest, that's what you've been waiting for a long time) right after acquiring all of it .....

( hint : they don't want to kill a game that they just bought )

"
Orbaal wrote:

Careful what you wish for - you might get it and hate it with passion :)
Just saying

There you go, somebody with some pragmatism.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Jul 23, 2018, 12:51:26 PM
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Koksii wrote:
tl;dr: Power creep and clear speed is completely and utterly out of controll, which is why we need a veteran mode.

Just implement it already.

There already is a hard mode. Ostensibly, alching maps is your opt-in hard mode. But with everything else in this fucking game, this good idea is completely ruined by terrible implementation.

First, as you say, ludicrous power creep has trivialized even T15 rare maps. Unless you roll one of the few mods that might negate your build, you can just roflstomp everything, often the boss included.

Second, the fact that map mods grant IIQ and pack size (which in turn means yet more IIQ) makes running non-alched maps completely unfeasible. You need all the IIQ/pack size you can get to sustain maps.

Third, map mods often do nothing to actually increase difficulty. Who cares about increased monster damage/crit chance when you blow up entire packs before they can even hit you? Who cares about Dodge being Unlucky if your build has no Dodge to begin with?

And fourth, when it comes to actual endgame encounters, the entire concept of map mods goes out the window for no discernable reason. Imagine Shaper or Uber Atziri with -max res and TC, or Uber Elder with chain and 170% increased AoE.



tl;dr We don't need a new hard mode, GGG need to make the one that's already there relevant again.
Last edited by suszterpatt on Jul 23, 2018, 2:08:26 PM
Would you like a more exciting and challenging version of PoE? One that plunges you into the thick of the carnage, assaulted from all sides by raging maniacs with little or no warning? Would you like to see things literally blow up in your face as you watch your victims' luridly animated, agonizing death throes?

Simply zoom the game all the way down to the ground.

What happens then? No more omniscient birds-eye-view of the anthill, no more nuking everything in sight from the other side of the screen. Try that with an over-the-shoulder, in-your-face view of the battlefield and you'll see nothing but gratuitous SFX obliterate your entire screen. If you actually want to fight the hordes rather than mow them down like weeds, you'll need to use tactics and melee skills that allow you to observe their behavior and anticipate their moves. You must also prepare to be ambushed at any time and listen for the sound effects that can tip you off. The payoff? Not just the satisfaction of prevailing with the odds stacked against you, but the gorgeously rendered panorama of a lethally enchanted wonderland.

Stick with this discipline, and you might discover the game is not just a one-dimensional DPS-uber-alles slaughter-fest. There actually are damage mitigation and potentiation strategies that work, life-recovery mechanisms you can rely on, and subtle leverage factors you won't see reported in tool-tips. For all but the cheesiest one-shot uber-boss cage fights, you can master the game with as little as 5K HP and 50K DPS, without spending obscene amounts of currency on prefabricated meta-builds.

Just two major improvements I'd like GGG to implement to make fully zoomed-in gameplay practical:

1. Revise map layouts to eliminate foreground blockage of your character in tight passages.

2. Provide a 90-degree view-rotation command, allowing us to keep the action in front of us.
Last edited by RogueMage on Jul 23, 2018, 5:45:29 PM
"
RogueMage wrote:
Would you like a more exciting and challenging version of PoE? One that plunges you into the thick of the carnage, assaulted from all sides by raging maniacs with little or no warning? Would you like to see things literally blow up in your face as you watch your victims' luridly animated, agonizing death throes?

Simply zoom the game all the way down to the ground.

The problem with self-imposed challenges is that they're an admission that the devs failed to make the game challenging for you.

It's kind of like saying "if you want a challenging career, go work at McDonald's and wear a blindfold".
"
suszterpatt wrote:
The problem with self-imposed challenges is that they're an admission that the devs failed to make the game challenging for you.

It's kind of like saying "if you want a challenging career, go work at McDonald's and wear a blindfold".

Here's the difference: Working at MacDonald's blindfolded is NOT fun, it's boring and frustrating.

Zoomed-in melee is HELLA FUN, and GGG did NOT fail to make it challenging.

It's not their fault if you refuse to even try it.
They implemented SSF and uber elder for a fringe group as well so thats not a valid argument.

All i want is a more slower paced gameplay. Not as slow as grim dawn or poe back in 2013 though. I dont want to hit a white monster for 10 seconds but oneshotting everything even with trash gear in a t15+ map is just too much. It feels more like a racing game at this point. People dont even look at 99,9% of the loot anymore.

I mean come on

https://youtu.be/amDoGtuB1Uw?t=9

in higher tiers it looks literaly the same.

And to all the people writing that i should play a worse build if i want challenge: I remember when i was still playing d3 and posted in the forums that the 6p setitems are too OP and bad game design, and then people answered me i shouldnt play with the OP 6p setitems then. Doesnt it say a lot about the game if players have to gimp themselves, play shitty builds with shitty items, in order to have a challenge? Sure, I could play the game while performing a handstand or playing with my feet to have a challenging gameplay but that goes for every game.
Last edited by Koksii on Jul 23, 2018, 10:20:10 PM
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Koksii wrote:
Doesnt it say a lot about the game if players have to gimp themselves, play shitty builds with shitty items, in order to have a challenge? Sure, I could play the game while performing a handstand or playing with my feet to have a challenging gameplay but that goes for every game.

I challenge you to check out my stable of melee characters. Just because they don't exploit the cheesy broken one-shot meta builds doesn't make them "shitty builds with shitty items".

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