The future of POE's speed farm Meta

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DivineChampion wrote:

One of the improvements which can be made in this game is speed (movement, fight etc).

I'm aware it depends on POV and opinions may vary, but if we speak of "classical" balancing in an aRPG, all forms of speed are innate to it and define it.

Taking into account that speed in general is a goal in this kind of games and directly defines player's power, part of the ingame balancing usually consists of various methods to make it harder to obtain, or even restrict it to an extent.
Why? Because speed is a powerful tool able to trivialize the content. There's no better DPS scaling than AS scaling.
There's no better progression scaling than MS scaling.
That's why in most of the properly balanced aRPGs there are soft and hard caps for a reason.

When speed is out of control, it's no more about "improvements". But about imbalance. Cutting through the content like knife through butter isn't an achievement, but a digress.
As long as player is able to trivialize the progression by turning it to "faster, further, higher" with less and less efforts, it's the definition of imbalance.

Turning an aRPG into a clicker isn't anything I'd like to be proud of as a developer.
But as long as money talks, I can understand why PoE developers can live with it.

Blizz once had a dev blog why they released carebear patch 1.3. Basically before that even elites (rares here) took 5 min. Diablo took like 20. Go watch those old vids and see. 95% hated it. So yeah speed meta pays the billz. I wish I could find that old post. But basically they broke down everything about player psychology.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Blizz once had a dev blog why they released carebear patch 1.3. Basically before that even elites took 5 min. Diablo took like 20. Go watch those old vids and see. 95% hated it. So yeah speed meta pays the billz.

Exactly. A game developer will always go in the direction it's customers want. When they get huge and can take some losses they can try some things ofc. GGG is not there yet. They will look to the majority and that is not the forum users.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Blizz once had a dev blog why they released carebear patch 1.3. Basically before that even elites took 5 min. Diablo took like 20. Go watch those old vids and see. 95% hated it. So yeah speed meta pays the billz.

Exactly. A game developer will always go in the direction it's customers want. When they get huge and can take some losses they can try some things ofc. GGG is not there yet. They will look to the majority and that is not the forum users.

Uhm no, GGG did the exact opposite.

They leached money from whales who where looking for a "niche" game that delivered the old-school "git gud" kind of difficulty and didn't hesitate to punish player error.

When they got bigger they didn't "try out new stuff" but instead folded down to the current mainstream mindset.

There is a reason why some of the old whales feel betrayed and i could argue rightfully so.

Peace,

-Boem-

I'm not a whale but can understand that. At the same time money talks. When you are responsible for 100? employees (and their families you see at company BBQ) your thinking changes drastically. No more purist allowed you gotta monetize this bitch.

That goes for every change really the whole xbox thing, speed meta, gambling boxen, "selling out to tencent" and so on.

I forgive Chris I know he'd prefer to be old school. He even mentioned it a couple times inrecent pod casts how he yearns for old school.

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Boem wrote:

Uhm no, GGG did the exact opposite.

They leached money from whales who where looking for a "niche" game that delivered the old-school "git gud" kind of difficulty and didn't hesitate to punish player error.

When they got bigger they didn't "try out new stuff" but instead folded down to the current mainstream mindset.

There is a reason why some of the old whales feel betrayed and i could argue rightfully so.

Peace,

-Boem-

I respect your comments in the forum Boem, but donations cannot be considered leeching. It free choice from an individual and no party had any obligation except the ones mentioned in said transaction: Grandmaster addition, custom forum avatar, unique item in game. I highly doubt GGG undersigned any kind of game developing direction in a group contract with aid whales.

When they got bigger they had to adapt to an ever growing player base that has different needs. What's wrong with mainstream? Is it not called that for a reason? I mean if there is a general consensus in what a consumer base wants should a business not listen and provide?

If people feel betrayed it would be because of a false sense of entitlement.

When you buy a 20$ pack of points you are entitled to 200 points. Nothing more.

When you buy a 60$ supporter pack you are entitled to 550 points, your portal, your MTX set, your cloak and your character effect. Nothing more.

When you buy a 10.000$ unique design you are entitled to design 1 unique item. Nothing more.

There was never any sort of consensus they would do anything else to the game than what they see fit. That is actually rightfully so. Because, unlike the players who are getting entertainment, this game is the creator's life's work. They are entitled to go in any direction they see fit, generate as much revenue as they can and cater to any market they feel needs catering to.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Blizz once had a dev blog why they released carebear patch 1.3. Basically before that even elites (rares here) took 5 min. Diablo took like 20. Go watch those old vids and see. 95% hated it. So yeah speed meta pays the billz. I wish I could find that old post. But basically they broke down everything about player psychology.

For strong builds with nice gear, those "times" were rather 1-2 minutes for elites/champs, and 4-7 min for Diablo. And it was OK for me. It's much better, that killing boss in 3 seconds, like we have it in PoE.

Are you talking original inferno?

Takes kripp over 20 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDA7GxAtXM

I'm surprised you enjoyed Invasion. I've heard streamers talk about it, but even the pro-difficulty junkies like Raiz said it was more broken and unplayable than actually difficult.

I can understand fond feelings for original Inferno D3 though. It wasn't for me, but there was some epic shit like that Kripp video.

The easiest way to resolve the speed issue would be to have customization for party options. It would be nice to have the party option to limit move speed by percentage, limit character levels allowed in the party or even limit character types allowed in the party.