Worst Death Penalty mechanics I've ever seen!

"

Vresiberba wrote:

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

The only reason to even have an issue with the game's death penalty is how it inhibits progress. The problem is when you take it away you just turn mediocre players into weaker ones, and the weakest players nothing more than mindless button mashers who feel entitled to the same things the best players have.

And this right here is the problem with people like you; you're a stuck-up, high-horse elitist. You don't want "sCrUbZZ!1" to equal your performances because then you can't brag about it. That isn't a feature games should have, it's completely and utterly useless.

I totally own my elitism, but what's written above has nothing to do with elitism.

Frankly, there's no reason for me to put on airs in a game where I'm just another faceless player in the crowd. Sure, there have been games where I've actually stood out, but PoE is not one of them.

When you set the bar low, people don't learn. It may make things more accessible to the "casual" audience, but it just leads to player frustration when they end up having to do content that actually challenges.

The hardest thing I've ever done so far in game was Red Elder, and all the deaths I ate in game fighting him allowed me to work on improving. I haven't gone farther because I'm trying to learn to build my map pool naturally instead of just post threads complaining about map sustain.

You respond as if the penalty doesn't affect me - my 93 from beastiary would have probably made 100 if not for that penalty. The difference is I understand why a penalty exists - because I have literally seen what happens when players don't have to "earn" their gear and levels in other games.

I still can't forget this one player, really good guy, sounds like Dr. Phil. We'd try to include him in the group content, but it didn't take long for everyone to notice him dragging down the groups he was in. I also know that I took the time to try to teach him and help him improve.

The problem was he never made an effort. People naturally were reluctant to take him into group content - not so much by word of mouth, but simply from being in groups where it was undeniably apparent his inability to perform basic tasks made the run of the mill stuff far more difficult than it was.

Another guy, also struggling with group content, would drag down the groups. People weren't as nice to him about it. But he stomached the insults and quickly learned to respect the more competent players. It was a literal joy to see him improve as a player - not only to watch a player become better, but to see how their outlook changed when people had faith in his ability.

League of Legends is full of toxic know-it-alls that think they're a lot better than they are and blame everyone else while they're rated the lowest of the player base. That's not to say there aren't toxic folks at higher skill levels, but that most folks fail because they're unwilling to accept responsibility and it's on them to actually get better.


But seriously - people have literally pointed out games where the death penalty is far harsher. Your response is absolute refusal to accept dying in video games. You REFUSE to find fault in YOUR OWN ability or lack thereof.

I'm bored to tears with PoE - I don't blame PoE because I recognize it's repetitive. I don't run HC because I recognize I like to have room for error so I'm willing to accept an xp penalty instead of perma death.

You die in PoE and you blame the system, a system that has been in place long before PoE existed. Imagine if you had a set number of lives, and once they were used you lost access to your character permanently.

Ever play Mario Bros?

A game penalising players for being awful? Imagine that.

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

When you set the bar low, people don't learn. It may make things more accessible to the "casual" audience, but it just leads to player frustration when they end up having to do content that actually challenges.

The hardest thing I've ever done so far in game was Red Elder, and all the deaths I ate in game fighting him allowed me to work on improving. I haven't gone farther because I'm trying to learn to build my map pool naturally instead of just post threads complaining about map sustain.

You respond as if the penalty doesn't affect me - my 93 from beastiary would have probably made 100 if not for that penalty. The difference is I understand why a penalty exists - because I have literally seen what happens when players don't have to "earn" their gear and levels in other games.

But seriously - people have literally pointed out games where the death penalty is far harsher. Your response is absolute refusal to accept dying in video games. You REFUSE to find fault in YOUR OWN ability or lack thereof.

You die in PoE and you blame the system, a system that has been in place long before PoE existed. Imagine if you had a set number of lives, and once they were used you lost access to your character permanently.

Ever play Mario Bros?

If you don't know why did you die, you don't learn. This is the main reason I have started this thread. In Mario Bros, I have always known why I have died.
Another thing how severe death penalty. Few hours of playing for one death is severe penalty for most players. After level 90 you have choice - leveling or fun. Do you know anyone, who risked doing uber bosses while having level 95 and 95% to level 96? Huge risk, same reward.
Difficult is third element. PoE is a mix of 99% of super easy and 1% of very hard level. For many players it is hard to jump from clearing map in 1 minute to die in 1 second for small mistake. What is worse, death penalty for both difficulty is the same. I know games in which death penalty during hard content is much, much lower than during easy content.

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

You REFUSE...

Pah!

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

Ever play Mario Bros?

I started with Pong. Figure it out.

"

ThePathOfExileTM wrote:

A game penalising players for being awful? Imagine that.

Were in 2018,can't penalize failure now,can we?

OP,or whoever is against the current penalty,what do you propose?

"

Kasapnica wrote:

"

ThePathOfExileTM wrote:

A game penalising players for being awful? Imagine that.

Were in 2018,can't penalize failure now,can we?

OP,or whoever is against the current penalty,what do you propose?

There are many better solutions than pure 10% exp death penalty.

- Decrease items drop for 1-2 hours; endgame bosses drop the best items only after deathless fight (more deaths, less drop).
- More safe spots for endgame leveling (ex. 25%, 50%, 75%) - not only full level.
- Limit death penalty for each level - ex. death penalty for only first 4-5 deaths per level.
- Change death penalty from 10 Percentage Points to 10 Percent of exp to next level.

There are many more good solutions, but many of them require bigger changes in game mechanic (like leveling 70+ by unlocking content).

"

Buster1013 wrote:

If you don't know why did you die, you don't learn. This is the main reason I have started this thread. In Mario Bros, I have always known why I have died.

In Mario Bros, things are really straight-forward. Unless you were Super-sized, you died to simply touching an enemy. You also died if you fell into a hole.

In D2, there were really only a few things outside of ubers that were dangerous to players, mainly stygian dolls and burning soul types. Unlike PoE, there weren't nearly as many graphical effects on the screen.

In Poe, anytime you die you know you ran out of health. What can be hard to decipher is how you took so much damage.


But the title of this thread isn't it's hard to tell what killed me, it's that PoE has the "worst death penalty mechanics" you've ever seen.

You don't like the xp penalty. At the same time you don't want to do what the players who do hit 100 do. Truth be told, the people who hit 100 know it's painful but make the CHOICE to pursue that goal.

Players have already pointed out more punishing mechanics can be found in other games.

--Now you've also suggested other options that you feel are superior. But just because YOU feel they are better does not mean the playerbase is in full agreement with you.

I just did the Chayula fight for the first time. It was nice to feel a rush for a change, and that was just clearing waves after popping the breach. Given the value of the breech stone, just attempting the fight is an expensive gamble.

I was over a third of the way to the next level. Three deaths later, almost all of it was gone.

But you know what, that one fight was the most fun I've had since the first time I saw a lich.

When the ticket alone to even TRY a fight is over 100c, most players aren't going to be able to practice that regularly. Losing several hours of experience is a small price to pay compared to losing everything.

I mean, there was a time where bosses reset to full after a single death in SC...

"

Buster1013 wrote:

First of all, I am not against death penalty. It is present in games since beginning of video games, but in PoE it doesn't make sense. Why? Because (in most cases) dying doesn't give you a lesson - if you don't know what mistake you have done, you won't learn anything and repeat mistake in the future.
For example, I finished Temple of Atzoatl many times, but I died 2 times during boss fights. Why? I have no idea. I'm playing totem build, so I have put totems and dodge attacks, but in these two cases I've died. The same problem is with some map bosses. I have just started endgame bosses, but in that cases, I knew why I've died, so it is not a problem.
I think it is mostly caused by graphic - there are too many effects, so it is difficult to see danger. In Diablo 2 boss attacks are clearly - I know which attack killed me. In PoE usually I have no idea what is going on (excluding endgame bosses). Another problem is very low zoom, so you don't see whole arena. Third problem is huge damage spikes, which usually one-shot players. It is primitive and artificial way to make game difficult.

Its part of GGG's design policy to frustrate players.

Look at bosses like the Izaro fight, the arena is well lit, the boss is large so easy to see, and you can clearly see what he is doing. As long as you have enough life he cannot one shot you. Even non-tanky builds can get enough life so the fight isnt a problem.

Then you look at map bosses like the malachai black core fight. The arena is dark, the boss is dark colored and blends in well with the ground, and he spams red attacks that blend in well with the ground. Most of his attacks can easily one shot you depending on map mods unless you stack 7k+ life. To top it off, its a story boss so map mods like twinned become unreasonable.

Omnitech is another badly designed fight. Either you DPS it down fast or it becomes annoying. With a corruption chamber, he can randomly hit me for 5.5k+ hp instantly with his quick lightning attacks that are non-telegraphed. And from what people have told me, if you are too close to him, he applies a debuff that does massive damage when it hits 10 stacks. There is apparently no visual warning besides a small debuff icon that gets lost in the sea of buff icons. Some of his attacks like the fire lasers are well telegraphed, but a lot of them are not and still hit you for massive damage due to the corruption chamber.

Tried asing around, nobody seems to know if the omnitech does physical/chaos or is pure fire/lightning so I dont even know what defenses im supposed to stack.

Then, look at vaal architechts. Their special abilities are telegraphed, hit hard, but cannot one shot you unless map mods are VERY dangerous. This is well designed and should be the standard. Unfortunately, it is not.

This is something GGG could learn from games like WoW. When you die it tells you what killed you.

Poison, reflect, savage strike and so on.

i think characters should Delevel when they die after 0%.
that would end the cast on death portal scroll tactics on endgame bosees.

i've seen streamers go into the fight use all pots, dps the boss down and then die, repeat. untill the boss is dead.

and a freaking combat log would be nice, dunno wdf we dont have one.