youve trashed the game

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allbusiness wrote:

Even if you buy it, you still have to roll it to the correct values. Getting all tier 1 values is going to be insanely hard.

Sure, but we should probably put it in the right perspective. I'm here since 2012 or something and in all that time I dropped one shav, bought one from cadiro and never saw a whiff of kaom. And I'm counting myself lucky, quite a few community members with several times my playtime and farming efficiency, like I_NO for instance, never saw a shav drop. Give me five years of farming and crafting these bases and I'll likely far exceed 40ex of value that shav had when I dropped it.

Another thing is that crafting an ES chest, a weapon or chancing a unique is a targeted process, you're aiming for one specific thing and all other outcomes are unfavorable. As you noted yourself, farming helm enchants or crafting these items can have a multitude of other favorable outcomes, and in an economy driven game there isn't much difference between crafting exactly what your build needs or something else of similar value that can be exchanged for your desired item.

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raics wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

Even if you buy it, you still have to roll it to the correct values. Getting all tier 1 values is going to be insanely hard.

Sure, but we should probably put it in the right perspective. I'm here since 2012 or something and in all that time I dropped one shav, bought one from cadiro and never saw a whiff of kaom. And I'm counting myself lucky, quite a few community members with several times my playtime and farming efficiency, like I_NO for instance, never saw a shav drop. Give me five years of farming and crafting these bases and I'll likely far exceed 40ex of value that shav had when I dropped it.

Another thing is that crafting an ES chest, a weapon or chancing a unique is a targeted process, you're aiming for one specific thing and all other outcomes are unfavorable. As you noted yourself, farming helm enchants or crafting these items can have a multitude of other favorable outcomes, and in an economy driven game there isn't much difference between crafting exactly what your build needs or something else of similar value that can be exchanged for your desired item.

Then you have an issue with trading and not with the value/power level of the items themselves. The items themselves are not busted until you start rolling truly insane mods. Again, these rares are absolutely chase items and are not easy to obtain. Anyone stating otherwise is just being a drama queen. Items like Brood Twine, Loathbane, Hate Splitter, etc. are insane items that are not and never will be easy to obtain. Those items required hundreds of exalts and eternals to be poured into them to gain those rolls, so why anyone believes that rolling Shaper/Elder items that have an even BIGGER pool of affixes is going to be easy is fucking beyond me.

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allbusiness wrote:

Then you have an issue with trading and not with the value/power level of the items themselves. The items themselves are not busted until you start rolling truly insane mods. Again, these rares are absolutely chase items and are not easy to obtain. Anyone stating otherwise is just being a drama queen.

Of course, but what I'm seeing here is people complaining it's 'easy-er' than it should be, not flat out easy. Some of them have quite a bit more experience with crafting than me so they probably know better what they're talking about, if crafting these items snowballs we have a problem.

I don't have an issue with trading, I have an issue with treating the game as if it doesn't exist. Devs, thankfully, are usually very careful with that.

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raics wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

Then you have an issue with trading and not with the value/power level of the items themselves. The items themselves are not busted until you start rolling truly insane mods. Again, these rares are absolutely chase items and are not easy to obtain. Anyone stating otherwise is just being a drama queen.

Of course, but what I'm seeing here is people complaining it's 'easy-er' than it should be, not flat out easy. Some of them have quite a bit more experience with crafting than me so they probably know better what they're talking about, if crafting these items snowballs we have a problem.

I don't have an issue with trading, I have an issue with treating the game as if it doesn't exist. Devs, thankfully, are usually very careful with that.

The stat stick is the only issue along with global crit chance. The stat stick problem also is related to dual wield stat stick nonsense in general, so it's not exclusively a shaper/elder mod problem, it's more of the fact that stat sticks for dual wielding is dumb in general.

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allbusiness wrote:

The stat stick is the only issue along with global crit chance. The stat stick problem also is related to dual wield stat stick nonsense in general, so it's not exclusively a shaper/elder mod problem, it's more of the fact that stat sticks for dual wielding is dumb in general.

Those mods being global is indeed dumb and stat sticking is dumber, but that's what makes them valuable in the first place. If they become local it's most likely instant trash tier so I'd sooner just reduce the values to something less gamebreaking, like 5-10% added damage per mod, that's the amount we had on talismans. If they're local it would have to be close to prism values to be interesting.

Speaking of which, as a point of reference, do you think obtaining a good talisman was easier or harder than obtaining a good shaped item? They would be decidedly on the lean side as a league mechanic these days but maybe that's proper scarcity for a core mechanic?

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robmafia wrote:

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allbusiness wrote:

1) You play SC where inflation is an issue. If you don't want that issue play HC where there is an item sink.

...wtf are you talking about?

riiiiiiiiiiiiight, there's definitely no power creep on hc. uh huh. /s

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allbusiness wrote:

2) The OP's thread is specifically about Elder/Shaper items

no, it isn't.

and you're not OP, anyway.

[Removed by Support]

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allbusiness wrote:

which are basically nearly impossible to roll for all tier 1 rolls.

[Removed by Support]

because the t2/t3 rolls aren't ALSO super OP? oh, that 8L? sucks because 1 of the 4 added skills is ONLY level 18! it's crap, i guess!

derp.

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allbusiness wrote:

3) 'Complete lack of objectivity' you haven't even played the league

[Removed by Supporrt]

i don't need to play the league to know it's OP bullshit.

also, the shaper/elder items, which you INSIST is the sole point of this, are in the core game, anyway... so the league is actually moot. GOOD JOB! a+ logic!

i can already see the tiers/affixes and etc, i don't need to play to know it's broken. also, i have no desire to play right now, since the game was ALREADY wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too easy. why would i want to play when it's even less challenging? derp.

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allbusiness wrote:

so why you even try to talk about what is overpowered and not overpowered is beyond me.

[Removed by Support]

lolz!

not one of those "removed by support" edits was even bad.

in fact, all 4 of them were MENTIONING LOGICAL FALLACIES!

hahahahahahahahahaahahaha

mention a logical fallacy that the quote is making, get censored. hilarious. seriously hilarious. hahaha. wtf, ggg. mindblown.

yes im sure you mentioned the "logical fallacies" very nicely too...

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allbusiness wrote:

1) The power creep isn't anywhere near noticeable in HC. That's because the power creep is based on items and not something free that everyone can get. HC has an item sink. Logic 101.

2) The OP Snorkle only makes references to War of Atlas items, not abyss. NT.

3) Getting all T2 rolls in temp league is pretty much mirror worth in league, again, it's not that easy. Or why don't you show me your mirror tier gear in temp league right now? Oh wait you don't play temp leagues.

4) You don't need to play the league to know it's bullshit? That's akin to some arm chair analyst who has never played the sport trying to say 'well that's not fair in football/baseball/basketball/tennis/etc. sport'


Again, this is massively overreacting. Snorkle himself doesn't even have a fucking Shaper/Elder item on his temp league character, so why he's bitching about all this 'OP power' is beyond me

1. the same items drop, hc literally has the same power creep.

2. and on the next few pages he mentions them. as did you. you seem to cherrypick this one throughout the thread, by the way.

3. this is called backpedaling. as for not playing temp "leagues," i played the last 4. in roughly 2 whole weeks of harbinger, i got bored with a level 94 character and appx 250 ex in built up currency (thanks, +2 skins and mirror shards!). now it's even easier. please explain why i should play a temp league i don't want to play so i can know it's easier, as if i don't already know it's easier. you can't.

4. i can watch a pitcher walk 6 batters on 24 pitches and know he shouldn't be in the game. also, your argument is pretty lousy given that i do have a lot of first-hand experience with this game. including crafting.


bringer of rain, a pseudo 7L helm (one of which was blind, hardly a strong support), was deemed too strong to use a chestpiece with. and it was still nerfed, anyway. twice.

now we have 8L helms with better supports. i'm sure you'll find a way to argue that this somehow isn't power creep because you never saw a BoR drop, or whatever...

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k1rage wrote:

yes im sure you mentioned the "logical fallacies" very nicely too...

actually, yes. there was no name-calling, hostility, or antagonizing.


eta: ironically, (imo) the worst parts of that post were/are the "derp"s... that are still there.

The game is in junk state since the CI / ES nerf.

It's simple as that.