youve trashed the game

"

robmafia wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

1) The power creep isn't anywhere near noticeable in HC. That's because the power creep is based on items and not something free that everyone can get. HC has an item sink. Logic 101.

2) The OP Snorkle only makes references to War of Atlas items, not abyss. NT.

3) Getting all T2 rolls in temp league is pretty much mirror worth in league, again, it's not that easy. Or why don't you show me your mirror tier gear in temp league right now? Oh wait you don't play temp leagues.

4) You don't need to play the league to know it's bullshit? That's akin to some arm chair analyst who has never played the sport trying to say 'well that's not fair in football/baseball/basketball/tennis/etc. sport'


Again, this is massively overreacting. Snorkle himself doesn't even have a fucking Shaper/Elder item on his temp league character, so why he's bitching about all this 'OP power' is beyond me

1. the same items drop, hc literally has the same power creep.

2. and on the next few pages he mentions them. as did you. you seem to cherrypick this one throughout the thread, by the way.

3. this is called backpedaling. as for not playing temp "leagues," i played the last 4. in roughly 2 whole weeks of harbinger, i got bored with a level 94 character and appx 250 ex in built up currency (thanks, +2 skins and mirror shards!). now it's even easier. please explain why i should play a temp league i don't want to play so i can know it's easier, as if i don't already know it's easier. you can't.

4. i can watch a pitcher walk 6 batters on 24 pitches and know he shouldn't be in the game. also, your argument is pretty lousy given that i do have a lot of first-hand experience with this game. including crafting.


bringer of rain, a pseudo 7L helm (one of which was blind, hardly a strong support), was deemed too strong to use a chestpiece with. and it was still nerfed, anyway. twice.

now we have 8L helms with better supports. i'm sure you'll find a way to argue that this somehow isn't power creep because you never saw a BoR drop, or whatever...

1) HC has the same items but item progression is far different as well as HC viable builds. If your build doesn't have significant defenses you flat out die. The meta is significantly different, which thus creates different priorities in the economy.

2) The original post is exclusively about Elder/Shaper items and why they are OP. The league temp items will always be broken, it's been that way every league. How else are you supposed to get people to play temp leagues? Invasion league for example had no real good items, and that league basically fucking sucked a left nut because of how difficult it was for no real reward. That league was dead within 2 weeks because of that single reason.

3) Your experience in previous temporary leagues have nothing to do with the current league's balance. Again, if you don't play the current temporary league you really don't have a right to comment on temp league balance. It's akin to trying to comment on mapping in general when you've never touched a single map.

4) Again, this isn't as simple as 'this is plain as balls daylights OP.' Most of the shaper/elder mods are not broken. The only things that are truly broken are the global mods which should have never existed in the first place, everything else requires you to roll multiple high tier mods, which is incredibly and extremely difficult and time consuming. When you start stacking high tier 1 rolls together yeah the item looks broken, but that item was already gonna be broken under old mods anyways so why people are complaining is beyond me.


I still have yet to see anything truly overpowered and so insanely broken it's gross. The closest was the +1 gem with global crit chance chest piece. That's REALLY good, but even then it lacked significant defensive stats.

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allbusiness wrote:

1) HC has the same items but item progression is far different as well as HC viable builds. If your build doesn't have significant defenses you flat out die. The meta is significantly different, which thus creates different priorities in the economy.

...and? the above is not an argument.

same items, same power creep. you disagreed, yet you... still didn't say anything to suggest otherwise.

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allbusiness wrote:

2) The original post is exclusively about Elder/Shaper items and why they are OP. The league temp items will always be broken, it's been that way every league. How else are you supposed to get people to play temp leagues? Invasion league for example had no real good items, and that league basically fucking sucked a left nut because of how difficult it was for no real reward. That league was dead within 2 weeks because of that single reason.

wow. so now you say the items are broken.

not sure what your point is supposed to be, since you seemed to be arguing the opposite for much of 20 pages.

"

allbusiness wrote:

3) Your experience in previous temporary leagues have nothing to do with the current league's balance. Again, if you don't play the current temporary league you really don't have a right to comment on temp league balance. It's akin to trying to comment on mapping in general when you've never touched a single map.

wow.

so i don't have a right to free speech because i don't play abyss? to make this funnier, you keep talking about non-league items, ie: shaper/elder.

so if i make an abyss character, i magically have a right to free speech, then? your belief system is fascinating.

1) The power creep doesn't hit HC as much because you can't go glass cannon DPS in HC. Priorities of items are significantly different in HC, you can't do damage if you're dead.


2) The only modifiers that may be issues are global crit chance coupled with +1 gem levels. The global %elemental dmg nonsense is more of an issue with dual wield stat sticking in general which IMO shouldn't exist. Everything else requires a multitude of lucky rolls in a row with good rolls to make the item outdo some of the unique items that you can get. For example, it's possible that you can make a 6 Link Chest piece that gives you more life than Belly of the Beast. To do so though, you'd need to roll tier 1 life roll and tier 1 max % life roll, and then you'd need something else to make it significantly better than Belly of the Beast. Same deal with weapons; try finding a 2H Shaper Axe right now that is significantly better than Atziri's Disfavour. Bet you can't find one currently in standard let alone temp league.


3) You can comment all you want, the fact is that no one is going to take your comments seriously regarding any temp league balance when you don't play temp league. The game is balanced around temp league, period, end of story. Not standard.

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Vesuvius079 wrote:

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Abetow2531 wrote:

That is an awesome item. Thanks GGG for the powerful items. I'm motivated to play your game even more. I like the changes and you know what this makes melee even better.

Nothing wrong with power creep. I play games to have fun not complain about mechanics and nerf this and that. That's for whiners and no lifers.

The irony is that after they balance around this stuff, you'll need to be running 8-10 link items to beat the end game bosses and only the no lifers will actually be able to achieve it because of the odds of rolling the right affix combos.

I've never reached the Shaper or his guardians yet in all the time I've played and I've never had the resources to own a 6link, and as much as I like the powerful new toys, I'm afraid I have to agree with this. Power creep means raising the standard for endgame which means semi-SSF players like myself and the casual playerbase will have an even harder time reaching it.

I don't want to have to spend ungodly sums of currency to get even a sliver of a hope that I'll beat the next endgame boss that comes along, and power creep runs the risk of that happening.

Snorkle, hey there... so, i figured i'd bring in some input, because we're both old veterans playing a.. what feels like revamped Path of Exile... so here are my thoughts on the matter

Yes, that weapon in the OP is well, OP as fuck, but what are the chances of it appearing again?

Remember seeing glyph mark? that mirror-worthy harbingers bow? That was rare, it got mirrored, its now worth 240ex

Look man, i know what you're saying, and i do agree, the power creep is insane..

Remember those days where it took us ages to kill a boss? now its one tap and dead...

Atziri had runners, actual runners, now every build and their dog can run it...

I've been making builds for the past 3 years, professionally (making builds for other players, etc) for almost 2 years, and i've noticed that every build can do the hardest content with ease.

I miss the days where only 5% could do content with ease, whilst the rest of us struggled, the game was a challenge back then... it really was.

But you have to understand that GGG is making money now, they're casualising the game, its the only way to make money, to make the game open to casuals.

PoE isn't that hardcore "play careful" game anymore, yeah people die, but its to one shots, not to proper mechanics.

I sympathise, i do, but its the world we live in

Much love bro.

"

allbusiness wrote:

3) You can comment all you want, the fact is that no one is going to take your comments seriously regarding any temp league balance when you don't play temp league. The game is balanced around temp league, period, end of story. Not standard.

wtf are you talking about?

i haven't played (pvp aside) on standard in YEARS. not sure why you keep pretending i'm talking about standard.

additionally, it's a contradiction in your own stance, given that the elder/shaper items (since you evade everything about the abyss jewels and uniques) are on standard, anyway.

also, you JUST claimed that the temp leagues are imbalanced. now you say they're balanced. make up your mind.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I've never reached the Shaper or his guardians yet in all the time I've played and I've never had the resources to own a 6link,

...6Ls can be bought for a few chaos.

"

robmafia wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I've never reached the Shaper or his guardians yet in all the time I've played and I've never had the resources to own a 6link,

...6Ls can be bought for a few chaos.

6l Pledge is for 10ex. It's not about whatever 6l, but useful gear. If you don't like trading, have no luck and get currency only from drop you sell, then it's very expensive.

"

Remember those days where it took us ages to kill a boss? now its one tap and dead...

Lol, what? Actually since 2.6 or 3.0 bosses have so much hp it takes forever to kill. I remember those days, when you killed a map boss, even without noticing that was the boss.

What's the point in making content, only 1% of players will see? Casual? No. Because to be able running red maps and end-game content you have to spend days and weeks, it's nothing about playing 2h per day, but everyday few hours of grind. It's far from casual. Atziri is still hard, because it has Uber version, not everyone can do. Even Uber Izaro - lot of players just use service.

"

robmafia wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

3) You can comment all you want, the fact is that no one is going to take your comments seriously regarding any temp league balance when you don't play temp league. The game is balanced around temp league, period, end of story. Not standard.

wtf are you talking about?

i haven't played (pvp aside) on standard in YEARS. not sure why you keep pretending i'm talking about standard.

additionally, it's a contradiction in your own stance, given that the elder/shaper items (since you evade everything about the abyss jewels and uniques) are on standard, anyway.

also, you JUST claimed that the temp leagues are imbalanced. now you say they're balanced. make up your mind.

You are not playing the current temp league. That's pretty evident. As such, your comments on temp league balance are pretty much disregarded because you have 0 experience with the current temp league.

Two, Abyssal league was not the point of this entire thread, Snorkle is upset about Elder/Shaped items which are a part of the expansion and are meant to be a permanent part of the game. Except, no one has yet to show a tier 1 Shaper/Elder Weapon in standard let alone in temp leagues. No one has shown anything that is remotely close to 'insanely broken.' All that's been shouted is theorycrafting 8L shit.

Three, temp leagues are balanced for the Elder/Shaper items. Less than 1% of the population will see high tier Shaper/Elder items that are incredibly powerful. I know this for a fact, because hardly 5% of the population even reaches red maps. In terms of the Abyssal items, alot of that has to do with the fact that the belts/jewels are too far available, which will likely not be the case later. It was the same deal with Breach items, Prophecy items, etc. GGG has to create a carrot otherwise no one will play temp leagues.

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allbusiness wrote:

GGG has to create a carrot otherwise no one will play temp leagues.

and the carrot turned off a lot of vets from the game. which is why i'm not playing.

so this went full circle back to my first post here.

speaking of circles, your criticism is that i don't like it so i'm not playing it, therefore my opinion is invalid. this essentially negates all negative criticism, resulting in only an echo chamber of yes-men.

saying i have to play a game i don't currently like in order to criticize it is simply... fallacious. and rather silly.

the fact that i'm NOT playing this league demonstrates my feelings for it, anyway.