About QoTF nerfs...

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Keyen wrote:

The average player doesn't build around QotF, actually. The average player does his build (right side of the tree) without QotF in mind, get a result, check if he can throw a grace, and then, he will get a QotF. And he is right to do so, because he gets another 30-50% movement speed, which is massive for a body armor with tri-res and life on it.

Average player would not even equip QoTF, because it's level 59...

If you use QoTF, you know what you are doing or you will know, because you will not see the difference...it's just 2 flasks basically and you have to fuck up really badly to miss that part about QoTF...

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Boem wrote:

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Miská wrote:

You could also say the same for you and likeminded. 'I don't use this item, so nerf is gg ty bye'.

Why do you even give your opinion on an item you onbviously 1. Never use. 2. don't care about. I mean did you really just form your opinion on the 1 video linked in this topic that has nothing to with an ACTUAL build.

I've been playing this game for like five years, i was one of the first to create dreamfeather builds together with somebody else on the forums when the entire community was "shit item 1 alch thx bye bye"

Obviously i have no experience with high evasion stacking techs and QotF interactions.

If you have nothing to add instead of baseless trash tier assumptions, fuck off.
Your post is easily discarded by the lack of substance.

95% of the community won't feel this change, similar to the XP nerf, it's inconsequential for the continuation of the game most people play.

Peace,

-Boem-

It's just getting silly. 80-90k is easily achievable - it doesn't take any extra miles, expensive gear or anything, most QoTF players should comfortably have this much. -_\\\

Everyone should be moving at base speed from lv1 to a 100.

Any speed at all should be removed from the game.

Hopefully Queen of the Forest will get 3D art to make up for this nerf!

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Miská wrote:

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Boem wrote:

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Miská wrote:

You could also say the same for you and likeminded. 'I don't use this item, so nerf is gg ty bye'.

Why do you even give your opinion on an item you onbviously 1. Never use. 2. don't care about. I mean did you really just form your opinion on the 1 video linked in this topic that has nothing to with an ACTUAL build.

I've been playing this game for like five years, i was one of the first to create dreamfeather builds together with somebody else on the forums when the entire community was "shit item 1 alch thx bye bye"

Obviously i have no experience with high evasion stacking techs and QotF interactions.

If you have nothing to add instead of baseless trash tier assumptions, fuck off.
Your post is easily discarded by the lack of substance.

95% of the community won't feel this change, similar to the XP nerf, it's inconsequential for the continuation of the game most people play.

Peace,

-Boem-

I never said you have no experience with the item. Stop changing my words to justify louzy and lazy posting on your part. Like how is it even relevant to be ok with something 'because 95% of the people won't notice it'. Talking about trash tier assumptions *sigh*

Instantly contradict yourself in the same post you quote.

Never a sign of a strong position in a discussion.

Peace,

-Boem-

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SunL4D2 wrote:

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Keyen wrote:

The average player doesn't build around QotF, actually. The average player does his build (right side of the tree) without QotF in mind, get a result, check if he can throw a grace, and then, he will get a QotF. And he is right to do so, because he gets another 30-50% movement speed, which is massive for a body armor with tri-res and life on it.

Average player would not even equip QoTF, because it's level 59...

If you use QoTF, you know what you are doing or you will know, because you will not see the difference...it's just 2 flasks basically and you have to fuck up really badly to miss that part about QoTF...

That's the problem. You think "average people" build around QotF while most don't. QotF is a great item even if you don't build around.

It's not because you can do gimmick build with it that any use which is not gimmickly becomes wrong.

And it's especially not "fucking up" if we use this item inside a working build to get 50% movement speed.

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Boem wrote:

Instantly contradict yourself in the same post you quote.

Never a sign of a strong position in a discussion.

Peace,

-Boem-

Stop embarrassing yourself even more. If you don't know the difference between ever used and use then I can't help ya. Nobody cares about your copy paste build you used in '98. You don't use the item on any char in your profile. Wich means you likely just made up your opinion on hearsay and that 1 little video at the start. I still stand by what I said, you are just one more of those 'I don't use it, nerf the shit outta it' people.

Maybe they should nerf Belly (They should have) Gonna cause some issues on half your chars bro.

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Keyen wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

"

Keyen wrote:

The average player doesn't build around QotF, actually. The average player does his build (right side of the tree) without QotF in mind, get a result, check if he can throw a grace, and then, he will get a QotF. And he is right to do so, because he gets another 30-50% movement speed, which is massive for a body armor with tri-res and life on it.

Average player would not even equip QoTF, because it's level 59...

If you use QoTF, you know what you are doing or you will know, because you will not see the difference...it's just 2 flasks basically and you have to fuck up really badly to miss that part about QoTF...

That's the problem. You think "average people" build around QotF while most don't. QotF is a great item even if you don't build around.

It's not because you can do gimmick build with it that any use which is not gimmickly becomes wrong.

And it's especially not "fucking up" if we use this item inside a working build to get 50% movement speed.

If you don't build around QoTF you will get around 6% extra movement speed WITH Grace up...without Grace (this aura reserves 50% of your mana btw) you will have less movement speed than you had without QoTF.

50% ms my ass. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Most people just follow the Meta and guides. There is so much information coming from all sides (forum guides, friends, what people in parties play, streamers, reddit, people in chat, etc. etc.) that there is no way, they would not get a hint and implement proper setup into their builds (of course if they are stupid enough to still use QoTF that gives them 5% extra ms with Grace...). Just 2 Flasks would push you to over 65k Evasion and over 130+ movement speed on their own...

I am getting sick of your bullshit.

Ouch, you're only going to be doing 230% MS in total with flasks and all. Clearly a worthless item now.

I wonder how many people using QoTF as an uberlab switch will actually change to something else?

Not many? Will the QoTF meta remain mostly unchanged? With just like, a 1 minute shift in Izaro clear times?

I've become a little cynical about GGG's balance process, but in this case, it was totally predictable. Don't make your game so dependent on an utterly broken mechanic next time.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

If you don't build around QoTF you will get around 6% extra movement speed WITH Grace up...without Grace (this aura reserves 50% of your mana btw) you will have less movement speed than you had without QoTF.

50% ms my ass. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Most people just follow the Meta and guides. There is so much information coming from all sides (forum guides, friends, what people in parties play, streamers, reddit, people in chat, etc. etc.) that there is no way, they would not get a hint and implement proper setup into their builds (of course if they are stupid enough to still use QoTF that gives them 5% extra ms with Grace...). Just 2 Flasks would push you to over 65k Evasion and over 130+ movement speed on their own...

I am getting sick of your bullshit.

Alright, a quick example, then...

Here is my project for 3.1 (not finished, but nobody really care anyway)
https://pastebin.com/HGGhUJA9

I have a grand total of +125% evasion (only coming from HP nodes like nullification, revenge of the hunted or Bravery). I'm not focused in any way around evasion. I just use a stibnite, not even a jade flask.


I get 52% movement speed from QotF. I can easily remove it for a kaom, or things like that without change anything meaningful in my build (removing grace, basically).


You are the one here spewing bullshit.

I did a cursory read of the topic, and here's something no one seems to have brought up:

Indirectly speaking (so in a way that didn't generate legacy gear), queen of the forest was buffed A LOT in 3.0

This is because of the base buffs to evasion and armour (alongside the base nerfs to energy shield).

In 2.6, the best queen of the forests were 428 * 5 = 2140 evasion (380% increased + 20%q + 100% base).

In 3.0, QotF got no nerf and the bases exploded to 601. So the max evasion is now 3005. Crazy.

In 3.1, with the nerf, we're going to 601 * 3.6 = 2163 evasion max. That's actually still improved over 2.6, in which QotF was already by far the preferred labrunning gear.


Now, the 100% move speed cap is, admittedly, a hard nerf, even compared to the way people were able to scale it in 2.6. But I just can't bring myself to complain about it. It's so fair. *Too* fair. This is a nerf that will make labrunning more accessible. That's it.