About QoTF nerfs...

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codetaku wrote:

I did a cursory read of the topic, and here's something no one seems to have brought up:

Indirectly speaking (so in a way that didn't generate legacy gear), queen of the forest was buffed A LOT in 3.0

This is because of the base buffs to evasion and armour (alongside the base nerfs to energy shield).

In 2.6, the best queen of the forests were 428 * 5 = 2140 evasion (380% increased + 20%q + 100% base).

In 3.0, QotF got no nerf and the bases exploded to 601. So the max evasion is now 3005. Crazy.

In 3.1, with the nerf, we're going to 601 * 3.6 = 2163 evasion max. That's actually still improved over 2.6, in which QotF was already by far the preferred labrunning gear.


Now, the 100% move speed cap is, admittedly, a hard nerf, even compared to the way people were able to scale it in 2.6. But I just can't bring myself to complain about it. It's so fair. *Too* fair. This is a nerf that will make labrunning more accessible. That's it.

The thing is though, I don't give a shit about lab. Nerfing because of a tiny non meaninful part of the game is silly. I agree the lab runners are abusing the item to the max, but then simply make it so that entering lab turns off all movement speed modifiers. No need to nerf an item into oblivion for those 5 people that run lab.

"Into oblivion" because a BODY ARMOR can't give MORE THAN 100% MS?


What the fuck?

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Miská wrote:

The thing is though, I don't give a shit about lab. Nerfing because of a tiny non meaninful part of the game is silly. I agree the lab runners are abusing the item to the max, but then simply make it so that entering lab turns off all movement speed modifiers. No need to nerf an item into oblivion for those 5 people that run lab.

This makes about as much sense to me as some one complaining that Frost Wall no longer can be instantly cast by consuming a Power Charge (coming from some one who wants that interaction back, for hilarity). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxiWu3T4dQo

"The thing is though, I don't give a shit about PVP. Nerfing frost wall because of a tiny non-meaningful part of the game is silly. I mean, sure, it's abusive to the point that it's actually breaking the game, but then simply make it so that entering PVP instances turns off all Power Charge generation!"

EDIT: Added video of the old Frost Wall interaction for clarification on how hilariously broken this was, comparable to the level of cheese QotF granted.

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AbdulAlhazred wrote:

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Miská wrote:

The thing is though, I don't give a shit about lab. Nerfing because of a tiny non meaninful part of the game is silly. I agree the lab runners are abusing the item to the max, but then simply make it so that entering lab turns off all movement speed modifiers. No need to nerf an item into oblivion for those 5 people that run lab.

This makes about as much sense to me as some one complaining that Frost Wall no longer can be instantly cast by consuming a Power Charge (coming from some one who wants that interaction back, for hilarity).

"The thing is though, I don't give a shit about PVP. Nerfing frost wall because of a tiny non-meaningful part of the game is silly. I mean, sure, it's abusive to the point that it's actually breaking the game, but then simply make it so that entering PVP instances turns off all Power Charge generation!"

So you think that pvp and pve should be balanced together as one? Look at WoW, they tried that for years and failed miserably. Because it simply doesn't work. PoE is all about the general nerfing of everything they can find that is overpowered in some area of the game. And instead of fixing the problem they rather take the lazy way and nerf it into the ground for everyone.

QotF was only good for 2 things, high base evasion (slashes by 1/3) and mov speed (demolished)
This chest is gonna be irrelevant in 3.1. Wich is kinda how GGG handles business. (See mjolner, CoC, poison, ES, CI, Bino's)

Just getting really really tired of people agreeing with nerfs on items that they don't use. 100% MS is really not worth using a mediocre chest piece for.

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Miská wrote:

So you think that pvp and pve should be balanced together as one? Look at WoW, they tried that for years and failed miserably. Because it simply doesn't work. PoE is all about the general nerfing of everything they can find that is overpowered in some area of the game. And instead of fixing the problem they rather take the lazy way and nerf it into the ground for everyone.

QotF was only good for 2 things, high base evasion (slashes by 1/3) and mov speed (demolished)
This chest is gonna be irrelevant in 3.1. Wich is kinda how GGG handles business. (See mjolner, CoC, poison, ES, CI, Bino's)

Just getting really really tired of people agreeing with nerfs on items that they don't use. 100% MS is really not worth using a mediocre chest piece for.

Can't tell if you're intentionally ignoring the point, or honestly don't see it. I can list off some more hilarious cheese that has absolutely no difference between PVP and PVE, if that will finally hit the nail on the head for you.



QotF was being used for the hilarious movement speed shenanigans before 3.0 buffed it by one thousand evasion. The evasion nerf on the item would mean little to nothing for 3.1 Uber Labyrinth runners.

The real nerf is the capped movement speed. At a 100% increased movement speed value.

Now, to be fair, I think the movement speed cap was enough. The evasion could have been left as it was, and they could have just implemented the hard cap and been done with it. But, I do understand why they nerfed the evasion in addition to the cap: GGG want players to invest a comparable level to before in order to hit that 100% cap.

At its current evasion level, it's still good. Over 2k easily. Resistances. A life roll (admittedly not great). And what's more, two unique effects no rare provides: Movement speed and flat physical damage reduction ALA old Arctic Armour.

So to reiterate what I said earlier:

"I don't give a shit about the situations where this item is fucking bonkers broken. I should be able to use it in its current state and abuse it, too!"

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AbdulAlhazred wrote:

The real nerf is the capped movement speed. At a 100% increased movement speed value.

This somehow just feels weak-ass to me. It feels like they wanted to balance it, but couldnt be arsed to do some calculating and figure out how much evasion should a QoTF players be able to get and how much move speed that translates into, so they just went "Ah fuck it, cant be bothered. HARD CAP BOYS!"

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toyotatundra wrote:

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AbdulAlhazred wrote:

The real nerf is the capped movement speed. At a 100% increased movement speed value.

This somehow just feels weak-ass to me. It feels like they wanted to balance it, but couldnt be arsed to do some calculating and figure out how much evasion should a QoTF players be able to get and how much move speed that translates into, so they just went "Ah fuck it, cant be bothered. HARD CAP BOYS!"

A fair assessment! They easily could have increased the amount of investment required without installing a cap. 1% per 900 evasion, for example.

Claiming that the item did not deserve a nerf after going from 2k to 3k evasion (without any other adjustment), or claiming that defenders of the nerf are fools, though...

That's just ignorant.

Please plug some of the builds into PoB and look before complaining about things you know nothing about. This item is still insane if you hit the 100% cap on top other movement speed modifiers the builds already have.

This literally only hurts the builds with 600% movespeed that are not playing the game. They are manipulating a broken mechanic and it ruins the economy.

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Miská wrote:

The thing is though, I don't give a shit about lab. Nerfing because of a tiny non meaninful part of the game is silly. I agree the lab runners are abusing the item to the max, but then simply make it so that entering lab turns off all movement speed modifiers. No need to nerf an item into oblivion for those 5 people that run lab.

I think the crack you were smoking has been laced with hallucinogens.

If you were scaling QotF dramatically beyond 100% movespeed, you were abusing the item.

I'm gonna give up on this discussion. It's pointless to discuss A blue wall with people that yell it's a yellow wall. If you wanna pretend like QotF was the to go to chest in 3.0 then be delusional all you want. It was a niche chest used for it's niche ability. That ability is now gone. I don't give a shit about the nerf in particular, I give a shit about another niche item biting the dust. The list is getting longer and longer.

A much better nerf would have been to disable this item in Lab, and slightly alter the evasion needed per 1% movement speed. This is just lazy.