[Sept 18] Player-player Trading

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Blah wrote:
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Worldbreaker wrote:
Trading system is fine. Damn near perfect. Only thing that would make it better is if xyz was an official thing.


Current system is far, far away from perfect. Since end-game heavily depends on trading (if you want excellent gear, etc), a proper trading system IS necessary. Searching stuff via external websites and browsing threads and then setting up meetings with strangers suck. It's far from fun, entertainment.

It's either no trading at all with proper RNG or a proper trading system (such as the website integration).


This.

and in most situations (95%), we use "Online only" and :
- if you're not in ladder : screw
- if playiong a reoll : screw

anyway, it's very clear that GGG is very satisfied that xyz did the job for them, but well, GGG should provide a better system
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Pathological wrote:
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Trading is fine in this game. That being said, it could always be better. I would love to see the ability to trade via the website without logging in the client and I think a lot of other people would as well.

As for the 2 guys just posting "up" I feel it would be better to just state your cases for why this is still a relevant thread and a nice addition to the game.
Stating that trading is fine is equally useless as saying up. Trading is not fine.


Well it is fine. Sorry you are just wrong about that.

GGG wanted a barter economy and we have a barter economy. If you don't want to look at trade chat you can use the forums. Unless you want an AH, which would ruin the trading aspect of this game, only small tweaks are needed for improvement.
Creator of the Praxis ring.
Want to stop power creep? Gut crit chance and crit multi.
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Pathological wrote:
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Trading is fine in this game. That being said, it could always be better. I would love to see the ability to trade via the website without logging in the client and I think a lot of other people would as well.

As for the 2 guys just posting "up" I feel it would be better to just state your cases for why this is still a relevant thread and a nice addition to the game.
Stating that trading is fine is equally useless as saying up. Trading is not fine.


Well it is fine. Sorry you are just wrong about that.

GGG wanted a barter economy and we have a barter economy. If you don't want to look at trade chat you can use the forums. Unless you want an AH, which would ruin the trading aspect of this game, only small tweaks are needed for improvement.
It's not fine, which is why months of development time is going in to an alternative, off-line system as per this very thread.

Like I said, just saying "it's fine" is neither here nor there. It's like saying "God exists, because god exists". It's not an argument - it's a (subjective) statement. The trade system is already at a point where any item more valuable than a basic unit of currency or two essentially goes to auction on the forum, and where the vast majority of trades are sourced not through trade chat (which is a useless piece of shit), nor through discussion on forum, but through a search engine on a third party website.

If the trade system in poe is currently fine, it's because it isn't actually being used; it's being bypassed.
Last edited by Pathological on Dec 22, 2013, 8:48:55 AM
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Pathological wrote:
Like I said, just saying "it's fine" is neither here nor there. It's like saying "God exists, because god exists". It's not an argument - it's a (subjective) statement. The trade system is already at a point where any item more valuable than a basic unit of currency or two essentially goes to auction on the forum, and where the vast majority of trades are sourced not through trade chat (which is a useless piece of shit), nor through discussion on forum, but through a search engine on a third party website.

If the trade system in poe is currently fine, it's because it isn't actually being used; it's being bypassed.

Totally off topic but "God exists because God exists" is not a subjective statement. It is an objectively wrong statement. If you want to believe in some vague deistic god of the gaps that can't currently be totally ruled out than good for you. But god with a capital G is the Abrahamic god and he has been reliably written off as a work of poor fiction by anyone with half a brain.

Back on topic the current system is fine now in that it fills the roll it was meant to fill.

Now I do think it would be awesome to be able to barter offline. That would add a whole new aspect to the game. I could trade and make wealth while in a lecture or in an airport. I would love that to become a reality.
Creator of the Praxis ring.
Want to stop power creep? Gut crit chance and crit multi.
Assuming trading is one of the most important part in PoE it should be something really more dynamic and aestethic, i'm not talking about more spam in trade chat, i'm talking about spend less time to create a shop, manage it ... More there will be items for sale / buy more the gameplay will be dynamic, more players will get a good feeling for all levels, beginners and regular players.


What i mean is something centralized on website including xyz mechanics and shop creation would be the best thing you could do :) I hope to see that one day and wish you a good luck for the dev part.


Thanks for reading, gl & hf


Hf :)
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Pathological wrote:
Like I said, just saying "it's fine" is neither here nor there. It's like saying "God exists, because god exists". It's not an argument - it's a (subjective) statement. The trade system is already at a point where any item more valuable than a basic unit of currency or two essentially goes to auction on the forum, and where the vast majority of trades are sourced not through trade chat (which is a useless piece of shit), nor through discussion on forum, but through a search engine on a third party website.

If the trade system in poe is currently fine, it's because it isn't actually being used; it's being bypassed.

Totally off topic but "God exists because God exists" is not a subjective statement. It is an objectively wrong statement. If you want to believe in some vague deistic god of the gaps that can't currently be totally ruled out than good for you. But god with a capital G is the Abrahamic god and he has been reliably written off as a work of poor fiction by anyone with half a brain.

Back on topic the current system is fine now in that it fills the roll it was meant to fill.

Now I do think it would be awesome to be able to barter offline. That would add a whole new aspect to the game. I could trade and make wealth while in a lecture or in an airport. I would love that to become a reality.


Man, I love these types of people. Its fine but.... What part about the developers spending months of time on it because.. It isn't fine don't you get? It isn't fine, they are thoroughly overhauling. It isn't fine a third party website is the primary means of trading.

Thanks for the smug pseudo intellectual diatribe as well. Not one cares about your internet atheist tough guy opinions. I don't practice any religion but ffs if I had to vote one group of people of the planet and it was between the internet/college atheist and ANY religious group I would choose the former 10 times out of 10.
Someone who thinks trading is fine in this game falls into one of (or maybe multiple) a few categories.

1.) Doesn't trade much
2.) spends hours sitting in trade combing through every message
3.) thinks RMT is ok.
4.) uses the search engine on xyz, and doesn't realize that it's 3rd party.

Trading in this game is a failure currently, and is the one "big" issue, I had hoped would have been resolved prior to launch.

I'll be honest. This is the first ARPG that I've ever dedicated any amount of time to. I'm a former WoW player.

I would love an Auction House, but people who are more invested in the ARPG style of games assure me this would be a bad idea.

Well, I really respect the opinion of some of the folks who have told me this. They cite the problems that DIII had, and that DIII is removing the AH because of it's failures.

So, an AH is a bad thing. That's fine. But, we need something.

Using a 3rd party website to search the sea of trade shops, while... "effective" is a statement on the failure of in game trading. For trading to work, and be considered a success, I believe that a website like poe.xyz.is should have no reason to exist.

Now, I'm not saying that I have a problem with the indexer. I'm not. It does a good job, doing what it's meant to do. I use it. I build my shop with that in mind.

BUT.

My point is, that if the trading in game were considered "successful" a site like the indexer should serve no purpose, instead of being the optimal way with which to find upgrades, and initiate contact for a trade.

IMO, something needs to happen. I have trade chat turned off in game, because it's a scrolling pain in the rear, and a distraction. The only time it turns on, is when I fat finger something. And you know what I do then? Open the option panel, and shut it right the hell off again.

I do hope that GGG is continuing to put resources into an alternative trading method. It would please me greatly if they came up with a solution that made the indexer a moot point. Heck. At this point, I think they should just purchase the code from the guy who built the indexer and integrate it into the official PoE site, and then institute browser based trading.

IN the long run? It'd probably be less time to make it happen.
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Thanarchy wrote:

and in most situations (95%), we use "Online only" and :
- if you're not in ladder : screw
- if playiong a reoll : screw


http://poe.xyz.is/online.html?2 problem solved.

The current trading systems are not optimal of course but if it gets too efficient in the end, like no player-player interaction involved anymore, playing becomes even less efficient compared to trading.

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shoju wrote:
Someone who thinks trading is fine in this game falls into one of (or maybe multiple) a few categories.

1.) Doesn't trade much
2.) spends hours sitting in trade combing through every message
3.) thinks RMT is ok.
4.) uses the search engine on xyz, and doesn't realize that it's 3rd party.


1.) I don't spend much time on trading but I trade relatively much. Easy with shops and indexers.
2.) I use trade chat only for currency vs. currency trades and usually pay a bit more to get it quick.
3.) A better trade system wouldn't keep RMT ***holes from RMTing
4.) I don't care if it's 3rd party, it gets the job done very well.
Last edited by Sa_Re on Jan 30, 2014, 3:55:47 PM
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The current trading systems are not optimal of course but if it gets too efficient in the end, like no player-player interaction involved anymore, playing becomes even less efficient compared to trading.


You mean like trading in 5 minutes in stead of 5 hours and getting back to playing the game and killing monsters?

Since when was playing tied together with efficiency and not fun? lol.

In what way could playing ever be more efficient then trading in the design GGG decided to follow? (base drops around multiplayer party play)

I don't mind the current trading system, i just don't use it because it is a hassle and people show the worst of themselves when wealth is involved. I only trade in public party's i join to farm some xp (i just ask if they got anything i can need etc for anything they can need)

But really that statement is just weird, take less time to trade and pass gear check = play more.

Not = take more time to endure trade and play less

Also do you really think there is player interaction in trade?

"hiy"
"offer"
"thx"
"peace and keep alive"

that's a trade simulation for you. All that interaction. And if it's not that case, then you just encountered a social human being, and if you are one yourself, most likely you will be playing with mates or in public party's = there is your social interaction when desired.

Sorry bro :), i just don't understand your point of view all that well.

I play for fun, to waste my time, not to be "efficient" else i would be working.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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Boem wrote:
In what way could playing ever be more efficient then trading in the design GGG decided to follow? (base drops around multiplayer party play)


I didn't say that and that wasn't my point.

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Boem wrote:
I don't mind the current trading system, i just don't use it because it is a hassle and people show the worst of themselves when wealth is involved.


That must be an assumption from your side. Most sellers and buyers I traded with understand that you gotta be nice if you want a good deal.

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