The average poe player doesnt know what theyre talking about!
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DamageIncorporated wrote:
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Shagsbeard wrote:
If you play SSF, guess what... it becomes a game of struggling to find stuff you wish you had.
And in most cases you won't ever get it. You think that's good game design? To HAVE to trade or you will never ever get it?
I do. There are plenty of ssf players in endgame. Remember crafting is a thing. I love the trading aspect and think it brings a great benefit to the game. The current trading system needs work. But the trading is not bad design at all. It's just not a positive aspect in your personal opinion.
If you play SSF, guess what... it becomes a game of struggling to find stuff you wish you had.
And in most cases you won't ever get it. You think that's good game design? To HAVE to trade or you will never ever get it?
Nonsense. You're exactly what I meant when I said that players are the problem. You think a SSF player should have the same results as someone who trades. Nope.
While a lot of you make very valid points, in the end GGG is in the game business to make money and hopefully enjoy crafting this arpg. As a "for profit" business GGG must analyze all the feedback and game statistics they can get and then decide:
1. How can we keep making PoE appealing to the largest audience.
Can GGG find the not too hard, not too soft, but just right level of difficulty
that will net them the greatest quantity of players worldwide (at least in theory)
and thus give them the greatest opportunity for revenue.
2. How can we appeal to the top hardcore arpg players without losing #1.
3. How can we keep players interested in playing for maximum time (years).
If 98% of players say "PoE is too hard" and quit and the 2% left are super happy, then GGG and only GGG can know (based on their internal private statistics) whether doing so (keeping PoE like it was before Ascendancy and the upward spiral of power creep) will generate a better return on investment than the path they chose and what PoE is today.
No one has a crystal ball and can play the "what if" game and be able to see 2 or 3 years ahead what the consequences of their decisions will have for the whole of the PoE game. I'm still amazed by a stat that Chris made last fall as a guest on the Lioneye's Watch podcast where (toward the end) he said that their statistics showed that 50% of new players quit before reaching normal act II. Whether that was due to Brutus or Merveil boss battles being "too hard" for new players or many just didn't like the look, feel, or style of arpg play no one knows (yes I know we all breeze through act I in our sleep). But if 50% of all who come and try PoE because it's "free-to-play" quit right out of the gate then something is missing. Possibly f-t-p means they get millions of kids trying PoE and looking at everything out there that is free and thus it is just a normal side effect that half will quit after a brief time. Maybe some do think The Warden boss fight is too hard and quit because they got slammed by Brutus and spiked at the same time and die many times. Maybe the art of kiting needs to be in a big easy to read PoE tutorial for all new players to read before stepping one foot in Wraeclast. Who knows?
The point I'm attempting to make here is that we all have our own "just right" way we would like PoE to be and GGG must do what they feel is in the best interests of making money and keeping in the black (has anyone here had to make payroll every week for 95+ employees with a free-to-play game? Sounds scary to me but I'm glad GGG can do it). If GGG thinks that player retention and mtx purchases hing upon slowly over time always raising the killing speed (which they did and now have server simulation computation overload and additional lag as a result) then that's why we have this much power creep. A new challenge league every 3 months or so and a new act(s) every year is definitely needed and done to keep player retention as high as possible. These and many other game changes are constantly being run through their internal process pipeline and the future path of PoE is always in a state of flux based upon how we react to playing PoE with our feedback, daily player numbers, and mtx and supporter pack sales.
EASY Monster Power.
MP1 hello kitty mode
to
MP3 game now
to MP 10 think invasion prenerf where game tried to kill u at all times and we only had 10% of DPS as today.
Everyone is happy
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep#3474 on May 24, 2017, 2:17:54 PM
IMHO the entire concept of economy in ARPGs is what is ruining ARPGs. Yeah, I am a staunch, anti-social prick - but I know what I think is fun in a game, and that is finding loot not buying it.
I agree. I'd be much happier finding top gear than being required/forced into buying it. But right there GGG shoots (has shot) themselves in the foot in focusing on making trading a high priority but at the same time making trading as difficult and undesirable to do at the same time. All in the name of protecting the game economy from bot farmers and flippers (that just fuels the PoE RMT black market). Come on GGG, which it is, are you setting the drop rates super low to motivate us to trade or are you making trade so damned frustrating and infuriating to use that we say "fuck trading" and go SSF route or "fuck this shit I quit!" to "protect" the game economy (if that's even possible)? You can't do both and shouldn't even be trying to do both because it isn't working. My choice is just give us asynchronous trade and I'll stop playing SSF and buy gear and set my stash up for selling and buy more stash tab space. I'm not in favor of the Blizzard solution to abandon trading completely and increase quality gear drop rates and have class bound gear.
omg, TWO people that agree with me.
Too bad the devs don't. This game is literally a economy simulator.
Yes, it's very sad that GGG can't see that these elements of playing PoE (trading and the game economy) are opposing forces. GGG can't make trading so f'cking bad that we'd rather play SSF instead of playing the "hunt the seller" sub-game and at the same time f'king kill endgame usable gear drop rates to push us into trading. Oh wait... they are doing it now and that's why millions have quit playing. GGG can't have it both ways and I wish they'd wise up and give us asynchronous trade. What's even sadder is that it wouldn't be a completely from scratch coding job to implement as I outlined in a previous post so it's not a huge financial investment and it can just be added in and not replace trade chat for those who would want to still use it.
Edit: Good to know I'm not alone in wanting async trading (a full auction house is not my desire and since GGG has always been and still is against a PoE AH we'll never have that here).
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.
The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070
Last edited by Arrowneous#3097 on May 26, 2017, 8:35:36 PM
This game is what you choose to make it. If you trade, guess what... it becomes a game about trading. If you play SSF, guess what... it becomes a game of struggling to find stuff you wish you had. If you play for chalenges, guess what... you have to grind.
It's not brain surgery. The people who are frustrated are people who don't understand that the goals they set have to reflect the nature of how they play.
No it cant. Chris even admitted his game is supposed to be unentertaining white noise most of the time . "we want players to be able to watch tv while playing"
so he removed combat mechanics that tried to kill you all the time. increased our dps by over an order of magnitude to one shot the do nothing mobs.
what you're talking about is play mechanics not game mechanic which is boring AF 99% of time on purpose. SSFHC wont help. Gameplay same.
No - you see, the problem of the game is any and all focus on fucking ECONOMY.
IMHO the entire concept of economy in ARPGs is what is ruining ARPGs. Yeah, I am a staunch, anti-social prick - but I know what I think is fun in a game, and that is finding loot not buying it.
Monster Hunter games have the best economy: not having one. If you wanted something, you had to farm it and it forced the devs to adjust loot tables to be appropriate.
And it didn't do anything to make the game anti-social as it heavily encourages cooperative play and bonding experiences (or anti-bonding experiences if a bad player is in the group).
This game is what you choose to make it. If you trade, guess what... it becomes a game about trading. If you play SSF, guess what... it becomes a game of struggling to find stuff you wish you had. If you play for chalenges, guess what... you have to grind.
It's not brain surgery. The people who are frustrated are people who don't understand that the goals they set have to reflect the nature of how they play.
No it cant. Chris even admitted his game is supposed to be unentertaining white noise most of the time . "we want players to be able to watch tv while playing"
so he removed combat mechanics that tried to kill you all the time. increased our dps by over an order of magnitude to one shot the do nothing mobs.
what you're talking about is play mechanics not game mechanic which is boring AF 99% of time on purpose. SSFHC wont help. Gameplay same.
to be fair I dont think he ever said "un-entertaining white noise"
He didnt i did - white noise based him telling us "can play while watching TV" and "chill not too stressful a couple hrs a day when you get h ome from work" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqNiSsp5Lq0
Chris is telling us game fails to engage or demand our concentration enough to turn off a fucking TV and doesnt stress us out.
And thats true now. White noise. 99% of time.
Bottom line game was consolized/casualized to an arcade shooter in difficulty. Monsters weakened players more OP on purpose by GGG. No one can deny this whos been here since 1.0
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep#3474 on May 24, 2017, 7:39:07 PM
You dont have to be meta every build DPS is >10x higher from 1.1 days. For example My supernova guide was 25K DPS then. I can make 350K DPS ice nova these days with exact same gear due to all the OP added from jewels to ascendancy to "more" gem. This makes almost all skills trivialize game because everything gets one shot. Melee is crippled in time because of range but they do same one shotting.
So not only do you not fight monsters much because you 1-2 shot them, the monsters themselves have been nerfed. Remember when a devouwer was actually scary? Not anymore.
SSF SSFHC do not change anything about gameplay once you get gear. It's just more time sink to get that gear. I'm SSF 90 was easy so easy and unegaging mapping I just fall asleep and have no will to improve my gear (which is bad)
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep#3474 on May 24, 2017, 8:05:57 PM
