BM vs CI rant

I kind of wonder if life leech shouldn't be deleted due to its power and replaced fully with "mana on hit" as the only mana regen from attacks in the game.


I know everyone loves having infinite mana, but it kind of removes alot of the cost of having low Mana and Blood magic's (the support gem and this Keystone) purpose.

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aleksandor wrote:

I kind of wonder if life leech shouldn't be deleted due to its power and replaced fully with "mana on hit" as the only mana regen from attacks in the game.

This probably would be the right direction.

The whole idea of "my damage is also scaling my survivability" aka life leech is inherently broken. Even without VP or Slayer shenanigans.

It's fun, it feels powerful and smooth, but it's broken.
In any game of that type I ever player.

(Titan Quest at least had 50% of its monsters, every undead, immune to leech)

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Peterlerock wrote:

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aleksandor wrote:

I kind of wonder if life leech shouldn't be deleted due to its power and replaced fully with "mana on hit" as the only mana regen from attacks in the game.

This probably would be the right direction.

The whole idea of "my damage is also scaling my survivability" aka life leech is inherently broken. Even without VP or Slayer shenanigans.

It's fun, it feels powerful and smooth, but it's broken.
In any game of that type I ever player.

(Titan Quest at least had 50% of its monsters, every undead, immune to leech)

Yeah, damage already scales your survival because you kill enemies faster, so they have less chances to kill you. Life leech is broken in every game with above-average diversity...

With ES + leech the "philosophy" is kinda esay - survive first shot and leech.

Very often i jum into large groups of monsters for this. Sometimes it ends bad ;)

What about blood magic NOT remove your mana, but instead TRANSFORM a high % of your mana TO LIFE? For example, u got like 8k life, and 10k mana(in overpowered condition, but so), taking blood magic gives u like 60% of your maximum mana as life, and u're 14k life, but u have no mana, so basically no auras, but hey, your life is close to current ES builds!

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Painkiler1 wrote:

What about blood magic NOT remove your mana, but instead TRANSFORM a high % of your mana TO LIFE? For example, u got like 8k life, and 10k mana(in overpowered condition, but so), taking blood magic gives u like 60% of your maximum mana as life, and u're 14k life, but u have no mana, so basically no auras, but hey, your life is close to current ES builds!

It's too similar to what MoM does. MoM converts your mana into life, essentially. Why do you want BM to do the SAME THING? Why dont make BM a bit different, to encourage some diversity?

It's not the same. With MoM you still have mana, you can have 20k mana, and 1k life so u still die to hit which is aroud 2k. With my proposal with 1k base life, blood magic passive and 20k mana you will have 13k LIFE and 0 mana, and you spend your life for skills, both auras and active ones.

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Painkiler1 wrote:

It's not the same. With MoM you still have mana, you can have 20k mana, and 1k life so u still die to hit which is aroud 2k. With my proposal with 1k base life, blood magic passive and 20k mana you will have 13k LIFE and 0 mana, and you spend your life for skills, both auras and active ones.

It still surmounts to the same thing.

Making your mana into part of your effective life pool.

It's just splitting hairs when you start going "Oh, but BM would get better 1 shot protection!" or "Oh, but BM wouldn't need mana regen/restoration!"

You're still essentially suggesting BM just be MoM 2.0

Which is the eternal issue with BM, it hasn't got a thing that's unique to it.

The thing its best for? Is Low Life, with more than usual amounts of auras used. However, regular Low Life still exists and is generally more popular since it doesn't require pathing down to a place where there's likely to be few actually useful passives (Most LL builds I'm aware of tend to go spells and utilize Pain Attunement given it's right next to a bunch of ES nodes it wants)

For a Life build? It just gets a few more points of life at best. But outside of that, it's still an infinite mana Life build, like every other standard life build.

It can't use MoM, so it can't use that unique playstyle (While standard Life can)

It doesn't offer anything unique at all. It just offers "Slightly better LL if you can take advantage of its pathing" and "Different Life Build"

This is why there was a thread not too long ago where people were discussing things like giving damage boosts based on the amount of life lost recently or other such things. Trying to make it compete with standard life by giving it something actually unique and interesting, rather than just trying to tack extra pool into it (Or some suggestions about making ES get reserved instead)

I think that's the better way to go about making it relevant too. Give it something interesting to play with. Something that can compete with Auras, so you can give them up without being gimped, but instead having something else to utilize for a boost.

Just a bigger pool would be lame. Since the balance of such would make it auto-pick (If it gave enough pool to still equal standard life even with auras reserving life...) or it would continue to be pointless to take (If it didn't give enough life to let you run auras), outside certain builds who don't need auras for whatever reason (Or could go with an Essence Worm without an issue. For example, I could see RF Life working well with just a level 21 Purity of Fire in an Essence Worm for that 5% max resist base)

Considering your point of view, you can put basically everything and say "it's MoM 2.0", ES can be MoM 2.0, CI can be MoM 2.0, and so on. MoM still USES Mana, and point of blood magic is REMOVE mana, as opposite to CI - which will be still superior to blood magic, and blood magic could be answer to underpowered, one-shot vulnerable life builds, because it will cost more effort than CI to get higher amount of life BUT IT WILL MAKE IT FCKIN POSSIBLE, and if you are afraid of LL builds getting even more OP, get addition to cut off half of energy shield when u pick blood magic passive, then it will be used by pure life builds to catch ES builds in terms of EHP, still, with downside of removed mana.

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Painkiler1 wrote:

Considering your point of view, you can put basically everything and say "it's MoM 2.0", ES can be MoM 2.0, CI can be MoM 2.0, and so on.

What? ES doesn't use Mana as a defensive bonus. Outside of Heirophant, which is unplayed, because ES builds don't need mana (Just like life builds don't need help with mana, ergo, BM is unplayed)

MoM uses mana to supplement life. THAT'S ITS DEFINING FEATURE. You effectively get 30% more Life, because 30% of all the damage you take is directed towards your Mana pool instead. But the cost is that you have to build for it, getting enough pool and mana sustain to be able to maintain it (In addition to using your skills, unless you want to sacrifice a gem slot for Blood Magic Support)

Hence your idea is MoM 2.0, since it's literally making mana into EHP. Like MoM.

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one-shot vulnerable life builds, because it will cost more effort than CI to get higher amount of life BUT IT WILL MAKE IT FCKIN POSSIBLE

So basically, "I don't care about life builds, so make BM essentially ES but still worse because reasons!"?

Life has some issues, notably it just doesn't have the EHP to survive the same things as ES.

But trying to fix that by making a single keystone to give Life similar EHP to ES, without doing anything about all other Life builds who will continue to have the same issues is asinine.

Especially since, you're still giving up Auras, so even BM Life will still be garbage compared to ES.