BM vs CI rant

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Painkiler1 wrote:

Armor is basically not worth investment. 95% things that oneshot most life-builds are pure elemental based, and in this game, most builds outleech/regen non-oneshot damage. GGG staff would have to rework basically everything to make armor/evasion/dodge useful again, but i bet they won't. So considering life builds, to speed up ES builds in terms of EHP we need strong buff to amount of life that we receive from passive tree and items/progression.

This is true. I've been running Acrobatics with enfeeble blasphemy and physical-reduction flask and physical damage from monsters is not much of a threat. It's a joke actually.

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Genmaicha wrote:

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Painkiler1 wrote:

Armor is basically not worth investment. 95% things that oneshot most life-builds are pure elemental based, and in this game, most builds outleech/regen non-oneshot damage. GGG staff would have to rework basically everything to make armor/evasion/dodge useful again, but i bet they won't. So considering life builds, to speed up ES builds in terms of EHP we need strong buff to amount of life that we receive from passive tree and items/progression.

This is true. I've been running Acrobatics with enfeeble blasphemy and physical-reduction flask and physical damage from monsters is not much of a threat. It's a joke actually.

In white low tier maps, maybe.
But we are talking about actual end game here.

I have a full evasion HC toon, with accro, Atziri's step, 30k+ evasion without flasks and a correct buffer.
It's nothing like enough for taking, even under basalt.
All monsters are not affected by curses, and bosses are resistant to them, so enfeeble isn't always the solution either.

So what kind of content are you actually considering to throw such claims ? Show us your character with it ?

I suspect most people don't understand that most of the damage in the game is physical or a combination of physical and elemental (so if you get hit for 4k, guess what, that's probably phys) -- only spells are generally purely elemental, most of which you can manually dodge. And even if elemental were the highest damages available, it also has the strongest universal defense against them, resistances. Maybe these folks just clear so fast these days they just don't get hit? Avoiding damage entirely is an effective defense until you get hit.

On enfeeble, that is probably one of the most retardedly powerful curses in the game. Not only does it give you more mitigation against big hits on average than a basalt or endurance charges, but is very similar to blind, making crits and even regular hits sometimes very difficult to land which is a HUGE advantage defensively... until you run into hexproof monsters and then you're basically dead. Layered defenses are basically a necessity, unless you like dying.

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Peterlerock wrote:

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Painkiler1 wrote:

With my build i have currently 10k life, 1200 armor and 0 evasion.

You're a Berserker, so your life is more like 9k.

I played VP berserker life sponge in the past.
It felt stupidly broken against some content, but still died way too often. This type of builds only survives when I am in full control all the time, press the right flasks, click in the right direction, observe and judge everything correctly, and my game doesn't decide to turn into a lagging clusterfuck whenever I'm facing real danger.

With builds that have layered defenses, even though I have less life, I have much more failsafes.

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Considering this, if you have to invest in passive tree and gear 1k more life or 10k armor, you will be better at 1k life, even with no armor at all.

...it's not like I just wrote this:

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Peterlerock wrote:

Because you guys are definetly right about this: there's no reason whatsoever to spend passives into armour/evasion. Every defensive skillpoint wants to be life or block/dodge chance. The only passives worth spending into AR/EV are the ones that have life attached to them.

...You won't ever find me investing skillpoints in the passive tree into armour nodes.
But I still want Armour, so where do I find it? ... with better gear. More expensive gear.

I still take all the life I can find on my gear (except that I won't trade a nice rare chest for a belly).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iwRW3HI18&feature=youtu.be Check yourself. Currently, with 1lvl more and some re-do in passive tree i'm over 10k hp.
And your are guys wrong in some points. THERE ARE FULLY ELEMENTAL ATTACKS, not only physical or hybrid physical+elemental. I'm tanking minotaur(t16 boss, so basically end-game content), with his shocking phys+lightning attack with ease, i can even facetank him with single extra element dmg mod

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Fruz wrote:

So what kind of content are you actually considering to throw such claims ? Show us your character with it ?

And what kind of content you actually have in your mind? Uber Izaro? Guardian of Chimera? Besides those two, i cant recall an endgame content without massive elemental/spell damage. And Izaro is only relevant for lab farmers (and we all know you need a specific build for that nayway), and Guardian of chimera.... Well, you dont invest many nodes/items to counter just one boss, so you?

Spell dodge/spell block, indeed, are useful in endgame content. But armour/evasion arent.


Fruz, stop trolling please.
It looks like your PoE is completely different from PoE, that i and 95% of players play. Can you give me a link to download YOUR PoE, where armour and evasion are useful and worth investments? I really want to play THAT PoE, not shitty PoE that GGG trows at us!

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Painkiller1 wrote:

Check yourself. Currently, with 1lvl more and some re-do in passive tree i'm over 10k hp.

......
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Aspect_of_Carnage
10% increased damage taken

Nobody said that there were none fully elemental attacks, only that the drastic majority of them is partly (or actually mostly) physical.

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Fruz wrote:

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Painkiller1 wrote:

Check yourself. Currently, with 1lvl more and some re-do in passive tree i'm over 10k hp.

......
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Aspect_of_Carnage
10% increased damage taken

Nobody said that there were none fully elemental attacks, only that the drastic majority of them is partly (or actually mostly) physical.

99% of attack poses no threat against anyway, so what's the point? Considering that 10% inc damage taken my life is "virtually" 10% less, but we are speaking about numbers, so against elemental attacks my life is 30k with 75% res or 100k against physical with 90% reduction? I will state again, physical hits are threat usually when one-shot you, and armor is less effective for stronger hits("Along with evasion and energy shield, armour is one of the three defence types that can implicitly appear on equipment. Unlike resistance, armour has diminishing returns as its effectiveness is based on the magnitude of incoming physical damage (multiplied by 10). As a result, armour is most effective in mitigating small hits (i.e. 50% and better reduction for initial damage less than a tenth of the armor value) and least effective in mitigating very large hits (where its absolute reduction can at most be one tenth of the armor value)" - direct cite from gg wiki). So basically, small hits won't harm you, because you can outleech/regen them, in this game only things that matter are post-kill DoTs when u can't leech(you can still regen/recharge) or one-shot things - and for these, only elemental resistances, immortall call, block or eventually dodge or evasion(less, because of dim returns). There is basically no point of stacking armour, you can do just as fine with no armor at all, as with 10k armor.

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Painkiler1 wrote:

but we are speaking about numbers, so against elemental attacks my life is 30k with 75% res or 100k against physical with 90% reduction?

No?
You take 10% more damage, so if 9100 damage goes through your resists, you take 9100+910=10010 damage, and you're dead.

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I will state again, physical hits are threat usually when one-shot you, and armor is less effective for stronger hits

...and I will state again: If I can have it for free - because I can spare at least 1 prefix on every rare item slot I use - I will still take it. Because no matter how little it may help, it still helps.
...which is all I ever wanted to say.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

So what kind of content are you actually considering to throw such claims ? Show us your character with it ?

And what kind of content you actually have in your mind? Uber Izaro? Guardian of Chimera? Besides those two, i cant recall an endgame content without massive elemental/spell damage. And Izaro is only relevant for lab farmers (and we all know you need a specific build for that nayway), and Guardian of chimera.... Well, you dont invest many nodes/items to counter just one boss, so you?

Spell dodge/spell block, indeed, are useful in endgame content. But armour/evasion arent.


Fruz, stop trolling please.
It looks like your PoE is completely different from PoE, that i and 95% of players play. Can you give me a link to download YOUR PoE, where armour and evasion are useful and worth investments? I really want to play THAT PoE, not shitty PoE that GGG trows at us!

You can't recall, probably because you're are not playing the game, only the forum.

Basically every map has more potential physical damage than elemental.
Fro; tier 1, to tier 16.

You are the one trolling, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and are trying to spread the same nonsense like a broken record because you read it somewhere else.
It's getting boring, honestly.

I have one thread on my BHC guardian with couple of videos, armor based character, not very high life buffer, t14 easy.

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Painkiler1 wrote:

[...]

And more misinformed stuff about armour ....
Armour does have a somewhat linear effectiveness because it basically blocks about the same amount of damage, but not as a % ( which would be actually silly ).

But since you might only know Path of Vaal Pact, no wonder you're so biased and don't really understand the rest.

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Fruz wrote:

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Painkiler1 wrote:

[...]

And more misinformed stuff about armour ....
Armour does have a somewhat linear effectiveness because it basically blocks about the same amount of damage, but not as a % ( which would be actually silly ).

But since you might only know Path of Vaal Pact, no wonder you're so biased and don't really understand the rest.

Ohhh, then everything related to armour and physical mitigation on PoE wiki is wrong? Maybe it's time to read about it on wiki, and stop pretending that u know everything?
Well, i've played many builds, OP ones, "normal" builds and some less popular, and i've only remember one thing - only elemental damage was a threat, not physical.