Not worth to pick up ANY items

"

svnhddbst wrote:

along the lines of portal gem, or detonate mines gem; not strictly necessary or beneficial, but helpful enough that people might want to use it.

"

sidtherat wrote:

with sheer player count reducing rares quantity by 75% just makes 0 difference

the item market will saturate 3 days later. big deal

answer to this situation is simple:

- build diversity (currently you should be playing any build as long as it is ES based..)
- chaos sink. hard chaos sink
- 2c/1c recipes reversed

fiddling with item quantity will only widen the chasm between trading and non-trading players (and im pretty sure that majority of the playerbase DOES NOT trade. ggg wont alienate their paying customers without a solid reason) and whats worse - wont change a thing. it will just delay the inevitable

problem with item saturation cannot be changed with numbers but with system changes - build diversity, actual currency sink, well-placed incentives

why chaos sink?

i was reading reddit th eother day and saw a post: loot from 100 XXX maps, total cost of rolling leaguestones 2300chaos.

but.. but.. but it isnt a cost. these chaos orbs just changed hands. nothing got removed from the economy whatsoever. on the contrary - these leaguestones PRINT money like crazy

if player doing this 100 map run bonanza had to BURN chaos orbs we would have actually a pretty different economy.

paying for content is bad. but at this point you could still play maps - but without the candy. or.. with candy, caring about these 1c sales people ask you to do from time to time.

"

le_souriceau wrote:

Only way to "sink" chaos orbs reliebly is to make something trully unresistable for general conformistic public.

Like some ugly stupid wings from ass for 5000 chaos cosmetic effect. Or "buy from vendor only" linear maps like shaped strand, with some exp bonus. Or something else truly and fanaticly desirable by worst parts of mmo-people.

Everything more sublime or weak will be simply ingored or overfarmed to even more sad balance.

"

Ygidua wrote:

I think that GGG has fallen into the same trap like the makers of Wildstar. They have created a game mostly for a very vocal minority, while forgetting that most gamers these days are casuals, who have family, jobs and in general less time to spend online.

By making the game as difficult as it is in regards of endgame bosses & drop rates, only very few can fully explore Wraeclast, leave alone finding their gear by themselves.


It is hilarious that I play since a whole year and yet have to find a six link or get one of my masters to level eight or ever see Shaper, Überlab, Über Atziri and the like.

While it is fun to have goals, it´s just horrible to know that these things are out of reach unless I go to an external website and buy myself loot. Loot, that the game should offer me and not some silly cash cow website.

My current summoner, has three rare items, gloves and boots which were found at merciless when I started maps and a chest, that I crafted myself. None of those items are great, but I can´t find anything better, no matter what I do. I spent more than 250 fuse trying to six link, more than 300 Alt´s, 100 chaos and nothing. If drop rates are so poor, than at least crafting should offer me an alternative, but it doesn´t.

I understand that for our vocal minority who plays all day and uses poe trade, all of that is not understandable and I will be called dumb, lazy and what not. Fact remains though, that playing this game is not very rewarding. I don´t need to find a mirror, but I want to upgrade my gear as I progress in that game.

Running maps up to T15 does not feel rewarding, the uniques I find are often low level, Atziri has yet to drop me her mace in many months of play and a golem gem, do they even exist, as I have not seen them yet?!


In my opinion, GGG should look at the player stats and find out how many people actually killed shaper, how many have level 84 rares equipped and so on. Uniques could scale, so that finding a low level unique on a t15, is automatically better than finding it at normal and that low level rare´s no longer drop at maps.
At times I find items with 5 ES, what is this? :)


GGG has done so much right with this game, but they need to find a way out from that hardcore nerd philosophy, as most gamers are not like that. Wildstar ignored Casuals too long and the game has died, so have others that tried to cater their game to a minority.

"

QuiquePoE wrote:

I play in SSF. I think it can give a good picture of the real state of the game.

In all this time since the league started, playing almost daily and a lot of hours/day, I managed to find 2 ex, like 8 divines and reach 90 with 2 chars and 82 with another, but can't advance farther than T12 maps.

I had to rely mostly on uniques, ironically, as they are the safest choice between crappy rares and prohibitively expensive and random crafting. Like, with my 2 ex I can only craft 1 item with multiple mods. And trying chaos spamming on some gloves and, after spending aprox 150 orbs (almost my whole savings, ATM), I ended up with mediocre ones a bit better than the ones I was equiping.

What's the difference between my 2 ex and ZLOJ's 170? Trading, obviously.

I think it's so out of hands that, much like GGG had to adjust the values of poison, bleeding and ignite damage to account for double dippings, they had to adjust the amount of good rare drops and currency (that is really what you use to craft!), to account for trading. These player behaviors are the direct consequences of it, IMO. It would seem players are more concerned about farming currency than actually playing their builds and the game.

And as a related thought about SSF: I think that the fact that it is considered a challenging mode instead of the foundation from which to play the game and from which other modes are balanced, denotes the game's total dependency on trading.

"

sidtherat wrote:

few more words about the money-creep

that maps+leaguestones example cannot leave my mind. it made me thinking a lot

im not a trade, nor a fliper. i run my maps 3-stones all the time, till like 2 days ago i havent sold a single stone. it did not down on me that people are actually willing to pay for them (because they seem to rain in large quantities)

here is my wealth

im not bragging, just showing how mostly solo player who sold some nice items (2 helmets with enchants, nice ring and few 30-50c items) stands

once ive settled with my 'almost-final' gear there is nothing i can spend my money on. zana mods? well.. did that for several maps.

sextants? sorry, but the 'pleasure' of buying anything small currently is not worth it. trading experience is simply revolting atm when you are trying to buy something cheaper than 10c


so im left with 700c and growing. some of these came from c-recipe (that i simply enjoy doing, i know it is 'not efficient') but most of this is just residual income. i pick and pick and pick and pick. 300.. 400.. 500.. 700..

i do not need better gear (because game is faceroll or unfair. i simply avoid unfair), there is very little that i can spend the chaos on.

with 700c any player has a very little incentive to trade for 1c items. so the cheap items do not sell, nor you can buy one if you need it.


why had GGG added money-printing mechanics (leaguestones) into already highly saturated economy?

overabundance of currency results in drastic polarization of prices.

cheap items going for pennies and few .01% of items going for 10ex+. the only thing that changes it that some items drop from the second group and join the first one.

so why care picking up items when almost everything can be found on poe.trade for 1-10c (if seller can be bothered to actually sell)


when people say that it costed them 2000chaos to run this many maps realize that it DID NOT remove these chaos from the economy. it just moved them. steadily growing piles of chaos orbs.. it cannot end in anything but a full blown economy saturation.


EX has no sink. EX crafting is done in so small numbers that it is not a sink. GCP has no sink - lab gem chests create all the 20% gems players need. chaos has a semi-sink: zana mods. but zana mods (except Beyond) are bland and boring OR dangerous. who would pay for that - if players have a choice they will always play as-easy-as-possible-yet-cheap-yet-profitable shaped strand..

then there is the 'uniques are good enough for end-game' debacle and several othe issues with build diversity (when was the last time you saw a life-build based item showcased on reddit?)