3.0... Slowing down the game a tad maybe?

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KorgothBG wrote:

But to me it's clear that it's not a simple matter at all.

It seems there are a lot of decisions like this.

I guess it's one of the downsides from attracting people from all manner of ARPG's.

It's much like that question of player damage.

As I recall, I've seen people mention how they'd enjoy it if PoE was a difficult game, where battles felt meaningful.

While GGG have mentioned, they want the game to be casual friendly, so you can come home after work and just murder a few thousand dudes. Hence why player damage has been increasing over time to the point where a lot of it is running through one shotting packs.

There's merits to both sides of the argument.

Same with speed.

High speed plays into the casual style of "Kick back and relax" gameplay. Zoom through levels, murdering everything and not have to think too hard.

Lower speed, can play more into the "I want my game to have actual substance" type of gameplay, where slowing things down makes stuff more strategic and makes you actually engage content rather than walk past it and listen out for your loot list to tell you something decent dropped.

Again, merits to both sides. One opens the game to a wider audience, the other gives better performance and can resonate really well with a specific audience.

I personally, just want to punch things and get loot. I'm not too bothered about how fast or slow that happens, just let me punch stuff for phat lewt. [Insert off-topic rant about more character inventory space to hold more loot]

If they do, they'll lose even more paying customers than they did when they made coc discharge unfun to play. Clearing speed meta is fun to play, the only thing not fun is the grinding curve from 85 to 100 and the labyrinth. Takes way too long to complete and makes me not want to reroll a character.
For a game based on constantly rerolling characters, you'd think ggg would have executed labyrinth like a dead leper by now, but no.

Speedclear meta is something unique to build towards, so are good ES builds. Take those away and poe becomes a mediocre, tedious grindfest not worth spending money on.


In short to ggg: fix the shitty game engine, make life better, don't fscking touch ANYTHING else, you'll only make it worse. Like you do with everything.

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KorgothBG wrote:

As i see it there are people who don't like the current sped up version of PoE, but i clearly remember and know people who hated the earlier days of slow paced PoE. Hell look at the comment of players who were not hook up on PoE - half of them would say that they don't like the graphics and the other half would say that PoE seems very "sluggish" to them, the battles are not exciting and take too long, the game is just slow, and that is kind of true for the early levels (which i actually enjoy quite a bit).

The way I see it, the problem is the game is too slow early on and too fast in late game. Fortunately, it's fairly easy to fix, buff base speed of everything and remove multistrike, echo and all other sources of multiplicative attack/cast speed bonuses, keep only penalty multipliers like we have with AoE now. Stacking increases can only take you so far but it's very effective early on.

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raics wrote:

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KorgothBG wrote:

As i see it there are people who don't like the current sped up version of PoE, but i clearly remember and know people who hated the earlier days of slow paced PoE. Hell look at the comment of players who were not hook up on PoE - half of them would say that they don't like the graphics and the other half would say that PoE seems very "sluggish" to them, the battles are not exciting and take too long, the game is just slow, and that is kind of true for the early levels (which i actually enjoy quite a bit).

The way I see it, the problem is the game is too slow early on and too fast in late game. Fortunately, it's fairly easy to fix, buff base speed of everything and remove multistrike, echo and all other sources of multiplicative attack/cast speed bonuses, keep only penalty multipliers like we have with AoE now. Stacking increases can only take you so far but it's very effective early on.

I think the issue is more so shield charge and whirling blades more so than attack or cast speed.

Base spell cast speed also just feels so horrible without echo and faster casting is pretty sub par for a skill gem in the current game state. I just do not see them removing echo without making spell casting feel unduly slow.

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Nephalim wrote:

I think the issue is more so shield charge and whirling blades more so than attack or cast speed.

Sure, movement skills are especially a problem, shield charge probably being the worst one because it scales with both move and attack speed. I think it's telling that devs never show fast builds to the press, it's a bit embarrassing so they always use something extremely slow which might be the reason some newcomers think the game never becomes faster for the regular joe.

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Nephalim wrote:

Base spell cast speed also just feels so horrible without echo and faster casting is pretty sub par for a skill gem in the current game state. I just do not see them removing echo without making spell casting feel unduly slow.

Sure, I did say 'buff base speed of everything'. It goes without saying that the change couldn't be done by itself, it would take a ton of balancing. Maybe it was a bit misleading, the fix would essentially be easy enough but it would still take quite a bit of work.

Couldn't agree more with you. I don't have a potent computer but I can run most games in low settings. Path of Exile runs ungodly well early on. But as I progress there is so much MUCH shit happening in miliseconds that It's too much for my PC and FPS go down the road.

I couldn't even play breach League. Going into a Merciless Breach and clearing it fast is hell for my computer

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KorgothBG wrote:

I don't know if i buy into that answer from GGG, when it comes to a business and PoE is a buisness, such decisions are not based on whim. Don't tell me that one day Chris woke up and said "Hey you know what, lets speed up the game! What would the player base thinks and want you ask? Well how the hell would i know?!". I'm sorry this just doesn't sounds very plausible to me. As i see it there are people who don't like the current sped up version of PoE, but i clearly remember and know people who hated the earlier days of slow paced PoE. Hell look at the comment of players who were not hook up on PoE - half of them would say that they don't like the graphics and the other half would say that PoE seems very "sluggish" to them, the battles are not exciting and take too long, the game is just slow, and that is kind of true for the early levels (which i actually enjoy quite a bit). So yes the current gameplay of PoE is "forced" to everyone but many couldn't be more happy about it. The question is would a change to the pace of the game end up with GGG gaining more players (and thus revenue) or loosing more players. I can't say that i know the answer, but that's what i'm trying to say - i can't proclaim to know that slowing down PoE is a win-win, no-brainer decision or if it's a terrible idea. But to me it's clear that it's not a simple matter at all.

Why wouldn't you buy it?

PoE has been known for horrible performance since day 1 and it hasn't changed much apart from desync/lockstep.
Even now I can put all settings on max and I'll have the same performance as on low. And that has always been like that for me (and a bunch of people) even on my laptop before this PC that I have now.

PoE is known for absolutely terrible performance, quick googling will confirm that if you haven't kept track of it over time.
Apart from Star Citizen (haven't tried it recently though), PoE is by far the most low-performance plagued game that I've seen. Hundreds, thousands of posts and threads on this matter. You would have to try really fucking hard to come up with a couple of games that suffer from similar performance issues. It really is the biggest issue in PoE, and it always has been.

If GGG really makes this kind of changes based on the feedback (I feel weird for even typing this...) then surely they wouldn't actively increasing the effects, AoE, speed and other complexities that cripple their servers and causing more and more performance issues.

PoE has undoubtedly lost and still is losing tons of players due to that. And I can't buy that their direction towards more clusterfucks and shit is the reason for more and more players in PoE since OB and that a change of pace which would up the performance would leave them lose players.
To me, that is not a reasonable conclusion.

Now, I'm not saying that nobody likes the "gotta go faster". I am saying that the reasonable conclusion would be that PoE would gain (much) more players by slowing down the gameplay (of smashing hundreds of harmless trash monsters for an hour and then you RIP because you loosen up because of how harmless 95%+ of the content is) to gain the very much needed performance improvements.

The complaints about how slow and sluggish PoE is was always about the early levels. Not Merciless and maps. But that's tied to the skill gem system, the more gems you got linked and shit the more engaging the gameplay is.
When you get some support gems in there the sluggishness simply disappears. Because it's not fun having to single target or small AoE-ing bigger monster packs.
Other than that, compared to other ARPG's, the beginning of PoE isn't any more sluggish then them.


I could yet again mention the good old melee vs ranged. One of the decisions that impacts the game a lot.
In PoE, melee has been worse and worse (compared to ranged, I have to write this so that ranged fanboyz don't immediately jump on and claim that melee has been buffed by various means over the time, with which I agree) since OB.
I simply can't and won't buy that a huge majority of ARPG players don't like melee. That scenario would be so ridiculous to the point at which it becomes disturbing.


Now, there has been a contradiction (or change of heart) with GGG regarding whether PoE is "hardcore" oriented or for more casual players.
At the beginning it was supposed to be the "hardcore" ARPG, but after the launch and over a period of time it somehow become a game which they want us to play by watching TV at the same time.


At the end, we really can't know the motives behind "gotta go faster". But I do not buy that it's because most of the players prefer it that way, despite its downsides, which are enormous.

:p


EDIT: Or how about the amount of shit-tier skills/supports? Why do they have to be pretty much useless?
Why do the few skills have to be OP as fuck?
How is that better for the game than having more balanced skills?
Because GGG wants it that way, they like one thing over the other and they can do as they please.

I feel they should just redo multistrike. It is a shit support gem that totally kills targeting and locks you into the animation.

I loathe multistrike.

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Hyskoa wrote:

If they do, they'll lose even more paying customers than they did when they made coc discharge unfun to play. Clearing speed meta is fun to play, the only thing not fun is the grinding curve from 85 to 100 and the labyrinth. Takes way too long to complete and makes me not want to reroll a character.
For a game based on constantly rerolling characters, you'd think ggg would have executed labyrinth like a dead leper by now, but no.

Speedclear meta is something unique to build towards, so are good ES builds. Take those away and poe becomes a mediocre, tedious grindfest not worth spending money on.


In short to ggg: fix the shitty game engine, make life better, don't fscking touch ANYTHING else, you'll only make it worse. Like you do with everything.

says the guy with no supporter tag. You might be right, just noticing the irony ;D

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tinko92 wrote:

I simply can't and won't buy that a huge majority of ARPG players don't like melee. That scenario would be so ridiculous to the point at which it becomes disturbing.

So, what do you think came first there, the chicken or the egg?