Donald Trump and US politics

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morbo wrote:

There is not much to talk with Nazis, the same as there is not much to talk with Communists or Islamists.

The problem is that the so called "liberals" designate everyone as a "nazi", just so that they can ignore or attack him/her. You don't want your heritage to be erased in a Bolshevist-Communist style? You're a Nazi. You don't want mass immigration from 3rd world low-IQ dumpsters? Nazi. You think there are only two genders? Yup, literally Adolf.

Meanwhile the Trucks of Peace keep plowing infidels and the amount of centrist & right-leaning people that still give a shit about debating the deranged left, is dwindling.

The trouble is, if it walks like a Nazi, talks like a Nazi, chances are, it is.

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soneka101 wrote:

No, I don't think normal people should talk with any kind extremists, I don't think a baker, taxi driver, a engineer, a farmer, or a construction worker should go around listening to Nazis and talking to them. They are not prepared to deal with that, and trying to do it only normalizes extremism...

Normal people isn't equipped to deal with this. Professionals and help groups might, but the best thing someone normal can offer to someone that has already been radicalized is scrutiny.

This is epistemologically authoritarian. By which I mean... The Catholic church before Martin Lither was epistemologically authoritarian because it held mass in Latin, didn't translate the Bible, Bibles were scarce, and people had faith in experts (clergy) to deliver the "truth" to them. The Protestant Reformation was an epistemological individualism movement, focused on delivering the Word directly to the people in their own language using the new printing press, undermining clerical authority. Eventually the Catholic Church had to change policy under populist pressure.

Before the Reformation: the Dark Ages. After: Renaissance and Enlightenment.

You don't have faith in normies to successfully debate Nazis. That certainly is not because you think normal people are Nazis or Nazi sympathizers; Nazis is almost universally reviled by the general populace. So what you're really pointing to here - and I don't fully ddisagree - is that most people cannot adequately explain why they believe what they believe. They've reached their conclusion on Nazis not through reason, argument and critical thinking, but through faith, groupthink and indoctrination.

I hope you understand how dangerous this situation is. When the normal people lack the arguments to convince others of what they believe in using reason, they lack the arguments to convince themselves of what they believe in using reason. You are counting on anti-Nazi faith, propaganda and politically correct peer pressure (bullying) to keep people away from a dangerous ideology. If you think that is a strong defense, you are wrong.

We need to arm our populations with reason. If normal people cannot successfully debate a Nazi, the solution is not to rely on the High Priests of the Church of the Left, but to equip normies with the arguments they need to be their own preachers. There is still room for experts, but as trainers in philosophy, not as ideologues.

But this does mean undermining the power of epistemological authority. Blowback is to be expected.

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soneka101 wrote:

@cipher_nemo You left wing extremist!!

You don't know me very very, do you? lol. I've never been accused of that before, ever.

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soneka101 wrote:

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jackof8lades wrote:

1:He speaks whit the info available ,presidents are expected to make a brief statement if something like this happens,so no lies here.
2:You dont know that you are just making shit up now.
3:You have got to be shitting here right.

Also you seem to be completely missing the point of what i said, i said he owned the media(which he did) by telling them how things should work and he was absolutely right in doing so.
All i am concerned whit is the message he gave and i judged that message on its own merrits and that message was right,he could be a cowf***** baby eating cat strangling nazi for all care, that doesn't make those words any less meaningfull or true.

The lie is that he is pretending to be someone he isn't and using that to claim the moral high ground.

He doesn't give two fucks about facts, and he is quick to condemn terror attacks when he wants to. This is even more clear after what happened in Barcelona. Trump has yet to call what happened in Charlottesville a "terror attack", but he did so with Barcelona 3 hours later after it happened.

If you want to believe that an hypocrite making excuses and venting at the media because of the scrutiny that he received when he failed to do his own job right is something admirable then go ahead. I can't set your standards for you.

"He doesn't care about facts" again you dont know that plz stop making shit up about ppl's motivations (including mine).
Charlottsville wasn't a terrorist attack no matter how much the left wants it to be,barcelona clearly was a terror attack.
Scrutiny? What a joke the left media just invents stories who are not true and can be shown not to be true,before scrutinizing trump they should look at themselves first.
Also non of this realy matters as this was not what i was talking about,at this point you are just deliberately trying to misrepresent my point, which i made abuntantly clear btw.
Talk about standards mb you should up yours before talking about someone elses.

you can use a gun at home when scared to defend yourself so I am not surprise some can react by crushing people once scared in own car.

Would be dishonest not to see those black and red shirt teens with baseball bats as the one who created this chain reaction.

Driver 100% guilty of it in the end but those antifa morons should also get indicted for creating the whole situation.

Trump just fired Bannon. I guess we'll see how Breitbart responds.

tick, tick, tick

Good news

BB Steve

Fake News talking heads like Wolf Blitzer are suggesting the recent attack in Spain was inspired by Charlottesville. LOL. That's tabloid level nonsense.

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鬼殺し wrote:

But then I remember the regulars of this thread have one foot on the !!!, the other barely halfway outside the door of their own little worlds. Given the sort of game PoE is, I shouldn't be surprised -- but being little more than a supporter who sort of stumbled onto it, I remain a little numb to it all.

Wow, just wow. You just used a mental disability as an insult. I'm literally shaking here. The tolerant left, in a nutshell. It's bad for everyone else to do this, except for you. Unironically, while thinking you're taking the position of reason. You then went back and edited it out, GGS.

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鬼殺し wrote:

there is no dialogue with anyone who even vaguely leans towards that ideology

A couple of questions...
1) Do you honestly believe anyone here vaguely leans toward the neo-nazi ideology?
2) Do you draw a distinction between actively supporting someone and allowing someone to talk without threatening violence against them?

It seems to me and hopefully everyone else that you've gone and conjured up an image of forum posters chanting nazi rhetoric and carrying nazi flags through their posts all on your own.

The reality is that the argument is between people saying "punch nazis in the face" and people saying "don't punch anyone in the face; use your words".