Donald Trump and US politics

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DalaiLama wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Do they want to fix the healthcare system?

Of course not.

I think today's standstill and delay of the health care vote is a good sign. That it wasn't just forced through shows Congress is sort of doing their job and not just acting as a rubber stamp. The balance of powers is important to getting reasonable outcomes, no matter how impetuous and determined one branch is.

Although it isn't a good sign for Trump, as it clearly delineates that his persuasion has limits, it is a good lesson for him in terms of learning to compromise if he wants to actually improve things. I am hoping he also realizes that more work needs to be done upfront before rolling plans out. The over ambition of a fresh president isn't really anything new. The job has a learning curve.

If he learns, we will be ok.

The 'they' I was referring to wasn't the government, anyway.

A fixed healthcare system cuts a lot of money from a few powerful people. While also removing a rather large and ongoing conflict within the people. The politicians are just doing the bidding of the donors and a fixed healthcare system is against the interests of those donors.


I think everyone should watch this at least once. 14 years ago, now.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

But I am neutral.

I'm getting my info from all sorts of media, it's the only way to NOT get only biased and false news.

Yeah, but you keep quoting fake news stories. You haven't shown good enough discretion to determine what's true and what's not. I think you quote what you like hearing the most. Which is the same thing you're accusing others of doing, basically.

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Trump's wiretap claims were 100% based on that stupid Judge on FOX. 100%.

Actually, it was a conservative talk radio host I believe. I'm sure he found some evidence of it before making the claims. And Trump likely had people in the intelligence services confirm it was probably true.

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He was wrong. Rather than admit it he doubled down. Then moved goalposts to mean any wiretapping not by Obama. Then moved them again to mean any surveillance. He asked for an investigation to buy time and to work out how to spin it. Which soon became clear that he was going to claim anyone from his team that was captured while they were surveilling another person.

He was wiretapped during the election. But you seem to care more about splitting hairs over the details involving it than the fact that in a supposedly free democratic election, the political party in power used it to wiretap the other. This is one reason of many I'm cynical of your claims of "neutrality".

It's like Scrotie said, there would always be plausible deniability on Obama's side. Does that mean nobody should ever be accused of anything because they'd always have plausible deniability?

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Here's what I can't understand. You are totally fine with corruption, lies, dirty money, big donor influence, quid pro quo and instability, as long as it is your guy.

The US government is the most corrupt entity in the world. That's what I think. We're not gonna just magically fix this with one person getting elected. But that doesn't mean one person isn't better than another for a variety of reasons. Yes, I think Trump is less corrupt than Hillary.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

The US government is the most corrupt entity in the world.

Did you say that with a straight face?

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TheWretch wrote:

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

The US government is the most corrupt entity in the world.

Did you say that with a straight face?

Damn right I did. The more powerful the government, and the country, the more powerful of an influence outside entities have on it. Everything from corporations lobbying, to foreign governments. Bribes and favors given out, lower level officials and even higher level officials being bought off, etc. Anyone and everyone who wants to buy power and influence in the USA has an avenue to do it.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

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TheWretch wrote:

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

The US government is the most corrupt entity in the world.

Did you say that with a straight face?

Damn right I did. The more powerful the government, and the country, the more powerful of an influence outside entities have on it. Everything from corporations lobbying, to foreign governments. Bribes and favors given out, lower level officials and even higher level officials being bought off, etc.

Where else would you rather live? Pray tell who your moral arbiters are

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

But I am neutral.

I'm getting my info from all sorts of media, it's the only way to NOT get only biased and false news.

Yeah, but you keep quoting fake news stories. You haven't shown good enough discretion to determine what's true and what's not. I think you quote what you like hearing the most. Which is the same thing you're accusing others of doing, basically.

I think Anu has improved greatly in discerning fake news from real. I don't think he's perfect about it, but I don't think I am, either. Anu isn't on the SarahAustin or even soneka level, so more respect is warranted. For now.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

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Trump's wiretap claims were 100% based on that stupid Judge on FOX. 100%.

Actually, it was a conservative talk radio host I believe.

Yes... which FOX then reported on.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

The US government is the most corrupt entity in the world. That's what I think. We're not gonna just magically fix this with one person getting elected. But that doesn't mean one person isn't better than another for a variety of reasons. Yes, I think Trump is less corrupt than Hillary.

People overestimate the power of the President, especially when it's operating in opposition to, rather than in cooperation with, the rest of government. We barely even put a dent in the corruption, and if you think Trump is doing a good job swamp-draining then you're wrong. For the most part, he's acquiescing for political expediency to accomplish his other promises.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

People overestimate the power of the President, especially when it's operating in opposition to, rather than in cooperation with, the rest of government. We barely even put a dent in the corruption, and if you think Trump is doing a good job swamp-draining then you're wrong. For the most part, he's acquiescing for political expediency to accomplish his other promises.

I agree, the President is limited in power, they're just one person in a large entity that existed before they arrived, and will persist long after they're gone. And Trump is prioritizing his agenda. He knows he's got a window to make a lot of changes, but not the kinds of changes that would target his own party as well. Talking about "draining the swamp" kinda changes. Every single Democrat would oppose him on that, and most of the Republicans.

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TheWretch wrote:

Where else would you rather live? Pray tell who your moral arbiters are

I never suggested I don't like living in the most corrupt country in the world. I'm just calling things how I see them. If I could afford to buy off politicians, I probably would too, just to be honest.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

Talking about "draining the swamp" kinda changes. Every single Democrat would oppose him on that, and most of the Republicans.

Not every single Democrat. I'm sure you've heard of RINOs — Republicans in name only? Well, there are DINOs, too. And not just Apathy.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

The US government is the most corrupt entity in the world.

Even more corrupt than African, Asian and Middle Eastern countries? You sir are high as a kite!

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

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TheWretch wrote:

Where else would you rather live? Pray tell who your moral arbiters are

I never suggested I don't like living in the most corrupt country in the world. I'm just calling things how I see them. If I could afford to buy off politicians, I probably would too, just to be honest.

That's a really sad way to see it. Alright then :/