Buff life.

"

LowBudget780 wrote:

I feel your pain, my main char is an Ice Crash Marauder I've been using since the game came out, I've taken every life node I possibly can and have life on all of my gear and still get destroyed t13+ (Yeah I know I'm wearing an Abyssus but that's not the root of the problem.)

The root of the problem is prolly that :
- DW => 17% block ( you could reach 26% at least with a nearby cluster + jewels
- Basically no evasion
- low armour ( how much does it make, 5k total ? That's 48% inc from the three + jugger ascendancies ). You have not taken the reduced crit dmg cluster( indomitable I believe ) either, and it's right along your path
- no dodge, spell dodge or spell block
- not using endurance charges, you have not picked any from the three and seem to be relying on the 20% chance to get EC when hit from juggernaut .... you could easily get more than this.
- 3 offensive auras
- Abyssus ( the "icing" on the cake.

Basically, your character is just not tanky, taking full life buffer with a tiny armour layer on top of it is not enough.
Now DW has a harder time getting that tankyness, I guess that's the price to pay for more dps, now is it worth it or well balance ? I can't tell.

I'm not saying that there is no balance issues regarding life and ES, just that your character isn't tanky.

It would be tanky if it was a CI character.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

LowBudget780 wrote:

I feel your pain, my main char is an Ice Crash Marauder I've been using since the game came out, I've taken every life node I possibly can and have life on all of my gear and still get destroyed t13+ (Yeah I know I'm wearing an Abyssus but that's not the root of the problem.)

The root of the problem is prolly that :
- DW => 17% block ( you could reach 26% at least with a nearby cluster + jewels
- Basically no evasion
- low armour ( how much does it make, 5k total ? That's 48% inc from the three + jugger ascendancies ). You have not taken the reduced crit dmg cluster( indomitable I believe ) either, and it's right along your path
- no dodge, spell dodge or spell block
- not using endurance charges, you have not picked any from the three and seem to be relying on the 20% chance to get EC when hit from juggernaut .... you could easily get more than this.
- 3 offensive auras
- Abyssus ( the "icing" on the cake.

Basically, your character is just not tanky, taking full life buffer with a tiny armour layer on top of it is not enough.
Now DW has a harder time getting that tankyness, I guess that's the price to pay for more dps, now is it worth it or well balance ? I can't tell.

I'm not saying that there is no balance issues regarding life and ES, just that your character isn't tanky.

Meh, he gunned for subpar choices, and I know from my own experience that Ambidexterity is a lot more worth it instead of the mace wheel - where he would have been better served by picking the 2 reduced stun threshold nodes, but I digress.

His 2600 base armour should feel lackluster, but he at least uses EC and an CWDT + Immortal Call - when gunning for 3/4, this is a better bet than keeping the charges up at all times.

He does have Arctic armour too, and probably uses it with Hatred + Herald of Ice.

His jewellery should be a lot better when running tier >13 maps.

Not to mention the wrong choice of using Death's Hand instead of a Doryiani's Catalyst for Ice Crash, and over relying on Crit instead of keeping Crit as an additional DPS boost - heh, my AoE focused Jugger is as squishy as his, although it hasn't his last 2 AP, he's pretty viable up to tier 13-14, but I want to keep it like that and he could easily reach a cool 22K armour and 15K Evasion while flasked and keeping all his offensive auras. It's a conscious choice.

He shouldn't complain at all when playing even a Jugger as glass canon.

And no, he wouldn't be a lot more tanky if he was a CI...

PS: My main Jugger played glasscanon too, although he used 7 Endurance charges, 19K permanent armour (with IR), 24% permanent block (over 50% with a Rumi's), and dual wielding Doryani's Catalysts with RT, and he was no slouch even with only 5K HP on difficult tier 11-13 maps, going higher you felt the need for more, so I'm now rocking the build with 6.6K HP, 8 Endurance charges, only 15K armour, about 2400 evasion, only 17% block and I manage even on higher than tier 14 maps (without changing any item, just by dropping a lot of the damage nodes)...

It is what it is, you need more EHP buffer on tier >13 maps.

Actually, there was a Doryani's when I checked lol.

I forgot the arctic armour, there'sthat too, true, and I didn't see end cry also, not sure if it was there in the Doryani's.

Rumi would indeed be a big survivability boost there.

How did you feel the difference between IR and less armour but some evasion to complement it btw ?
And yes, in the highest tier, one needs a high buffer, but for life builds ... that isn't enough, some mitigation is needed, quite a bit of it.

Fruz/Sofocle: you guys are honestly, just a little bit of a whole lot of super-duper full of shit.

You can shrug off people's comments all you like but there's a reason that a very few archetype builds kill hard content like T16+ map bosses. Because you're being subjected to huge damage and/or huge damage over time. Go ahead and build all your endurance charges, fairly low life (under 10k), lots of armour, legacy or double legacy rumis, etc, etc, and eat crap versus any T16 boss or high burst damage with dangerous map mods (because it's ele dmg). Meanwhile, as many have said, you will survive easier with high damage and ES and vaal pact because the three synergise well; no need to spend so damn many points in life and armour, so you can get more damage and ES and, lo, you leech more as a result; also, you will survive way more easily just by picking Slayer over Juggernaut. Only reason to play Juggernaut is to ignore cancer map mods like chilled ground. Slayer leeches like crazy and can face tank a bunch of shit which your confected EC/armour/block builds can't.

By the by: pretty much *any* build can clear T1-T16 white mobs. There's only minor hp scaling in it. And the only difficult Tier 11-13 map is Lair. Which is a cancer map so most people don't play it. If you can do all the tier 14 bosses, you're getting by; tier 15 is okayish; you only need about 5x the dmg compared to tier 15s to do tier 16 bosses consistently...

^
You completely missed the point, good job.
You can read again if you want to understand.

By the way, has anybody said that life was fine and there was no balance issue with ES here ? or is this guy for real ?

"

Fruz wrote:

Actually, there was a Doryani's when I checked lol.

I forgot the arctic armour, there'sthat too, true, and I didn't see end cry also, not sure if it was there in the Doryani's.

Rumi would indeed be a big survivability boost there.

How did you feel the difference between IR and less armour but some evasion to complement it btw ?
And yes, in the highest tier, one needs a high buffer, but for life builds ... that isn't enough, some mitigation is needed, quite a bit of it.

He might have changed post your suggestions but all those choices that should made his build very viable are actually "noob traps" unfortunately...

There is a small difference between playing my build with IR and playing it with evasion, although by swapping Hatred for Grace, the difference regarding incoming damage from attacks gets a lot more noticeable, and I do tend to tank most incoming damage - ele spells hit like a truck, but they have hit the same before.

There should be a more tangible difference for every 5K armour that you have, especially when comparing to Endurance Charges, and hopefully they'll manage to do that sooner than later...

Having up to a cool 500K tooltip fully buffed with RT is the saving grace that kept me playing my build as it's mind boggling how epic you could scale your damage with charges, flasks and Punishment without over-relying on all the broken items/mechanics/interactions and skills...

I might need a different build to do post tier 15 maps, but even this one manages to give a sufficient satisfaction when I don't push into ES tier difficulty without further preparing myself for certain "hiccups".

"

davidnn5 wrote:

Fruz/Sofocle: you guys are honestly, just a little bit of a whole lot of super-duper full of shit.

You can shrug off people's comments all you like but there's a reason that a very few archetype builds kill hard content like T16+ map bosses. Because you're being subjected to huge damage and/or huge damage over time. Go ahead and build all your endurance charges, fairly low life (under 10k), lots of armour, legacy or double legacy rumis, etc, etc, and eat crap versus any T16 boss or high burst damage with dangerous map mods (because it's ele dmg). Meanwhile, as many have said, you will survive easier with high damage and ES and vaal pact because the three synergise well; no need to spend so damn many points in life and armour, so you can get more damage and ES and, lo, you leech more as a result; also, you will survive way more easily just by picking Slayer over Juggernaut. Only reason to play Juggernaut is to ignore cancer map mods like chilled ground. Slayer leeches like crazy and can face tank a bunch of shit which your confected EC/armour/block builds can't.

By the by: pretty much *any* build can clear T1-T16 white mobs. There's only minor hp scaling in it. And the only difficult Tier 11-13 map is Lair. Which is a cancer map so most people don't play it. If you can do all the tier 14 bosses, you're getting by; tier 15 is okayish; you only need about 5x the dmg compared to tier 15s to do tier 16 bosses consistently...

And this is why?

No one forces you to run maps with all mods dangerous versus your build, although there should be a lot more incentive for that if you ask me.

You could run those tier >15 maps with an Aegis Gladiator with 8K HP + 2K ES like Zloj does so you could argue that even life without over-relying on solely buffer could do it still. Or do as Snorkle does with his mirrored geared chars and reach that content easily.

No one said it's easy to deal with elemental damage, but to have instant leech apply to ES/life and just bypassing the regular leech limits is a @#%^ that had to be addressed since moving the VP location... Having reworked the leech mechanic and introducing the Vessel of Vinktar that provided leech in obscene amounts was a mistake that GGG shouldn't have made no matter what.

Oh, and our "confected" EC + Armour/Evasion + Block builds could tank the shit out of maps that render you beautiful leech characters useless, and last time I checked everyone could die to Volatiles or possessed multi-essence monsters.

Even a goddamn Shaped Dunes/Strand could get dangerous to downright impossible when dealing with the counter mods for sustain, not to mention the occasional reflect/DD/Volatile encounter that could get you killed.

They should address RT in a way to make it viable to kill those said tier 15-16 bosses, either by buffing it, or by nerfing broken damage scaling potential (double dip being still available they couldn't touch bosses HP), and I personally would like to see more difficult whites, more smarter blues and yellows and untankable damage for all bosses (this is where they deal 1 mil phys/ele/chaos damage per hit no questions asked) while still having sensible auto-attacks and other abilities...

The gaps between life/ES needs to be adjusted, even by just tuning the defensive mechanics to get them up to par - you should have the same chance to experience all content no matter your starting choice, but now, even with large investments Life is subpar to ES unfortunately...

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

He might have changed post your suggestions but all those choices that should made his build very viable are actually "noob traps" unfortunately...

Nop, I don't think so, the first time I replied there, there must have been a bracket's forum bug because my whole message got wiped out :/.

I did reply a bit later then ( edit ), and I noticed that it had changed.
But seriously, taking those 3 extra endurance charges could be a big thing for example, and I would not play DW in this areas without taking the extra DW block, like really.
The "indomitable" also .... not taking it with such a setup, especially wearing abyssus, seems really really like playing russian roulette in high maps.

Buff base life and buff life per level

Increasing life to levels of Energy Shield is just redundant and a lazy copy-n-paste job. Boss monster damage should be decreased dramatically (I'm talking about those overpowered element damages that does way too much damage against life builds), and Chaos Inoculation user should receive something like 40% more physical damage penalty to even the playing field.