Buff life.

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Genmaicha wrote:

Increasing life to levels of Energy Shield is just redundant and a lazy copy-n-paste job. Boss monster damage should be decreased dramatically (I'm talking about those overpowered element damages that does way too much damage against life builds), and Chaos Inoculation user should receive something like 40% more physical damage penalty to even the playing field.

There is no sense to nerf damage, if ES is powerfull. Better just buff life, it's easier and does not entail necessity od nerf other things like player dmg or something...

Nah, nerf some of the crazy ass interactions between CI and Vaal Pact. As it is Vaal Pact + Ghost Reaver are insane upsides. People just sitting around facetanking the Shaper's beam because they can leech back more ES than damage they take. It's as min-max as it gets. (CI has no regeneration and so doesn't care about VP's downside. It still gets its recharge.)

There are also few real downsides to CI because Chayula, Valyrium, Auxium, Dream Fragments, Skyforth and flasks means that CI is effectively stun/chill/freeze immune. There is an item that you can put in any slot to trivialize the downsides of CI. I don't really know what you can do about those other than to target them for nerfs.

Dream Fragments is a little insane for how little it costs these days. I just pop that sucker on and ignore chilled ground on maps.

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DeviantLightning wrote:

Nah, nerf some of the crazy ass interactions between CI and Vaal Pact. As it is Vaal Pact + Ghost Reaver are insane upsides. People just sitting around facetanking the Shaper's beam because they can leech back more ES than damage they take. It's as min-max as it gets. (CI has no regeneration and so doesn't care about VP's downside. It still gets its recharge.)

There are also few real downsides to CI because Chayula, Valyrium, Auxium, Dream Fragments, Skyforth and flasks means that CI is effectively stun/chill/freeze immune. There is an item that you can put in any slot to trivialize the downsides of CI. I don't really know what you can do about those other than to target them for nerfs.

Dream Fragments is a little insane for how little it costs these days. I just pop that sucker on and ignore chilled ground on maps.

How the fuck does fucking over something make life better? Did you even read what you wrote? LETS NERF ES THAT WILL MAKE LIFE BETTER!

LOGIC

Cmon dude.

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I_NO wrote:

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DeviantLightning wrote:

Nah, nerf some of the crazy ass interactions between CI and Vaal Pact. As it is Vaal Pact + Ghost Reaver are insane upsides. People just sitting around facetanking the Shaper's beam because they can leech back more ES than damage they take. It's as min-max as it gets. (CI has no regeneration and so doesn't care about VP's downside. It still gets its recharge.)

There are also few real downsides to CI because Chayula, Valyrium, Auxium, Dream Fragments, Skyforth and flasks means that CI is effectively stun/chill/freeze immune. There is an item that you can put in any slot to trivialize the downsides of CI. I don't really know what you can do about those other than to target them for nerfs.

Dream Fragments is a little insane for how little it costs these days. I just pop that sucker on and ignore chilled ground on maps.

How the fuck does fucking over something make life better? Did you even read what you wrote? LETS NERF ES THAT WILL MAKE LIFE BETTER!

LOGIC

Cmon dude.

rolls eyes
I agree that life does need some buffs, probably to the green side of the tree especially, as CI is just easier than life for a Ranger. But I don't necessarily think a global buff is how it should be handled. I'm not really comfortable with the notion that life should just be palette-swapped version of CI.

As it stands, life doesn't innately protect against freeze/stuns that well either. I wrote a bit about having a MoM build this league that gets stunned/frozen all the time. Not enough to be lethal, but enough to be disconcerting.

It's simplistic to say that CI needs no nerfs because as it is, it facetanks everything and is efficient to grab everywhere.

I think all life needs is probably another tier on gear to roll. (Buff Essence of Greeds if you need to)
As well as buffs to life nodes all across the board. Small nodes getting a 1-2% and Notables getting a bit more.

With that and the new paragon system coming out. That may be enough to not warrant drastic changes.

Maybe ES gets a slap on the wrist and maybe look into Vaal Pact, but even as a player who only plays life builds... ES should be a strong option to go for. People enjoy crafting their hubris circlets, vaal regalias and w/e shield you guys use.. (I dont use ES) So I don't think we should take that away from those players.

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I_NO wrote:

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DeviantLightning wrote:

Nah, nerf some of the crazy ass interactions between CI and Vaal Pact. As it is Vaal Pact + Ghost Reaver are insane upsides. People just sitting around facetanking the Shaper's beam because they can leech back more ES than damage they take. It's as min-max as it gets. (CI has no regeneration and so doesn't care about VP's downside. It still gets its recharge.)

There are also few real downsides to CI because Chayula, Valyrium, Auxium, Dream Fragments, Skyforth and flasks means that CI is effectively stun/chill/freeze immune. There is an item that you can put in any slot to trivialize the downsides of CI. I don't really know what you can do about those other than to target them for nerfs.

Dream Fragments is a little insane for how little it costs these days. I just pop that sucker on and ignore chilled ground on maps.

How the fuck does fucking over something make life better? Did you even read what you wrote? LETS NERF ES THAT WILL MAKE LIFE BETTER!

LOGIC

Cmon dude.

Calm down. Want to do some picnic? You, me and my friend Jim Beam :P

If they tune down ES, they can tune down damage. The current state of the game is based around high ES and instant leech, which makes most builds capable of facetanking everything. However, if they simply "buff" life (does it matter if you have 6 or 7k HP...?), nothing will change. People will still play the high ES/VP builds, because they are still superior. Tuning down ES and VP in combination with tuning down damage will solve some of the bad balancing. 1 shots needs to be 1 shot. Especially some of the pure ele damage or conversion monster hit way too hard.

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Astarte911 wrote:

Calm down. Want to do some picnic? You, me and my friend Jim Beam :P

If they tune down ES, they can tune down damage. The current state of the game is based around high ES and instant leech, which makes most builds capable of facetanking everything. However, if they simply "buff" life (does it matter if you have 6 or 7k HP...?), nothing will change. People will still play the high ES/VP builds, because they are still superior. Tuning down ES and VP in combination with tuning down damage will solve some of the bad balancing. 1 shots needs to be 1 shot. Especially some of the pure ele damage or conversion monster hit way too hard.

Agree there
( Altho I would have brought another friend )

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Nah, nerf some of the crazy ass interactions between CI and Vaal Pact. As it is Vaal Pact + Ghost Reaver are insane upsides. People just sitting around facetanking the Shaper's beam because they can leech back more ES than damage they take. It's as min-max as it gets.

There is no problem with players who have strong build abnd can faceroll everything. There is problem with average players who have a big trouble and being crashing becasue don't have OP build.
Stop being jelous and try break fun for some of players, becasue rest of them have problems is good for you? So toxic...

"

If they tune down ES, they can tune down damage. The current state of the game is based around high ES and instant leech, which makes most builds capable of facetanking everything. However, if they simply "buff" life (does it matter if you have 6 or 7k HP...?), nothing will change. People will still play the high ES/VP builds, because they are still superior.

That can change a lot. Especialy for new and casual players who don't seek a OP way to smash everything at start. More survivvability = more players in game. I can bet a lot of players just abbadon game becasue can't stand against poor mechanics and die like hell in end-game.
Of course after some time in game you reach OP build and faceroll everything. The point is, you will not give up until then?

If you just like HP/Melee playstyle and want make chars like that, but bad mechanics this makes it difficult for you nd makes you often die... or can't stand against OP monsters, it dosn't make you create a class what you don't want to play. It dosn't make you to quit game.

I had same problem with Monk in Diablo III. That was my favorite character. A most favorite - I don't need others. But when Blizzard change whole mechanics so my build became useless and my character was unplayable, I stopped playing. Because I do not intend to waste time if someone can destroy such hundreds of hours of game just one click.
Same situation is now with HP cause. When you done Normal, Cruel, Mercilles. Want ht endgame, start do maps, and everything can be average... until you don't hit the wall (read: a OP rare monster / boss with insane affixes and 1shot mechanics)

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sofocle10000 wrote:

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davidnn5 wrote:

Fruz/Sofocle: you guys are honestly, just a little bit of a whole lot of super-duper full of shit.

You can shrug off people's comments all you like but there's a reason that a very few archetype builds kill hard content like T16+ map bosses. Because you're being subjected to huge damage and/or huge damage over time. Go ahead and build all your endurance charges, fairly low life (under 10k), lots of armour, legacy or double legacy rumis, etc, etc, and eat crap versus any T16 boss or high burst damage with dangerous map mods (because it's ele dmg). Meanwhile, as many have said, you will survive easier with high damage and ES and vaal pact because the three synergise well; no need to spend so damn many points in life and armour, so you can get more damage and ES and, lo, you leech more as a result; also, you will survive way more easily just by picking Slayer over Juggernaut. Only reason to play Juggernaut is to ignore cancer map mods like chilled ground. Slayer leeches like crazy and can face tank a bunch of shit which your confected EC/armour/block builds can't.

By the by: pretty much *any* build can clear T1-T16 white mobs. There's only minor hp scaling in it. And the only difficult Tier 11-13 map is Lair. Which is a cancer map so most people don't play it. If you can do all the tier 14 bosses, you're getting by; tier 15 is okayish; you only need about 5x the dmg compared to tier 15s to do tier 16 bosses consistently...

And this is why?

No one forces you to run maps with all mods dangerous versus your build, although there should be a lot more incentive for that if you ask me.

You could run those tier >15 maps with an Aegis Gladiator with 8K HP + 2K ES like Zloj does so you could argue that even life without over-relying on solely buffer could do it still. Or do as Snorkle does with his mirrored geared chars and reach that content easily.

No one said it's easy to deal with elemental damage, but to have instant leech apply to ES/life and just bypassing the regular leech limits is a @#%^ that had to be addressed since moving the VP location... Having reworked the leech mechanic and introducing the Vessel of Vinktar that provided leech in obscene amounts was a mistake that GGG shouldn't have made no matter what.

Oh, and our "confected" EC + Armour/Evasion + Block builds could tank the shit out of maps that render you beautiful leech characters useless, and last time I checked everyone could die to Volatiles or possessed multi-essence monsters.

Even a goddamn Shaped Dunes/Strand could get dangerous to downright impossible when dealing with the counter mods for sustain, not to mention the occasional reflect/DD/Volatile encounter that could get you killed.

They should address RT in a way to make it viable to kill those said tier 15-16 bosses, either by buffing it, or by nerfing broken damage scaling potential (double dip being still available they couldn't touch bosses HP), and I personally would like to see more difficult whites, more smarter blues and yellows and untankable damage for all bosses (this is where they deal 1 mil phys/ele/chaos damage per hit no questions asked) while still having sensible auto-attacks and other abilities...

The gaps between life/ES needs to be adjusted, even by just tuning the defensive mechanics to get them up to par - you should have the same chance to experience all content no matter your starting choice, but now, even with large investments Life is subpar to ES unfortunately...

yeah pretty much.

I dont even need mirrored gear to facetank guardians. that dagger ranger, the only piece of mirrored gear is the dagger, I took it off put on a 1 chaos binos and just facetanked them the same way, it made no difference. The dagger is the only mirrored thing, I could spend 1c to 30c on every single gear piece on that character, presuming I link them myself, and still facetank t16 bosses. The way I make life melee I dont rely on having enough damage to kill them before they kill me, I barely use any pots, I dont rely on leech that much so I dont have to have high damage to sustain my life, I just passively tank them because I have defenses.

The guardians are attack based monsters, Phoenix has his little explosion thing, u walk out of range on the telegraph and walk back in, its all attacks that you have to tank from them up close. Against split ele/phys attacks the way I make life melee chars they have twice the ehp of a 15-16k es build, 4x the ehp of a well made kaoms heart build, probably 10x the ehp of the kind of life builds a lot of people in these sort of threads make. Against pure physical u can probably double that gap at least. It doesnt take mirrored gear to make those chars, you could fully equip 30+ chars like that for the price of 1 mirror.


Lair is a joke map to me with life builds, my juggernauts and gladiator can afk in the wolf spray from Dark Forrest, never mind Lair. I dont even need to leech through it, outside of the wolf form where he is invincible and applies corrupting blood everything the boss itself does I can just stand there and completely ignore.


I havent played a slayer, Id like to see a video of it tanking something I couldnt tank on a build with defenses. What exactly are we talking about? What sort of things can a slayer tank with leech that were presuming a build with defenses cant?

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DeviantLightning wrote:

Nah, nerf some of the crazy ass interactions between CI and Vaal Pact. As it is Vaal Pact + Ghost Reaver are insane upsides. People just sitting around facetanking the Shaper's beam because they can leech back more ES than damage they take. It's as min-max as it gets. (CI has no regeneration and so doesn't care about VP's downside. It still gets its recharge.)

There are also few real downsides to CI because Chayula, Valyrium, Auxium, Dream Fragments, Skyforth and flasks means that CI is effectively stun/chill/freeze immune. There is an item that you can put in any slot to trivialize the downsides of CI. I don't really know what you can do about those other than to target them for nerfs.

Dream Fragments is a little insane for how little it costs these days. I just pop that sucker on and ignore chilled ground on maps.

thing is, people can do that with life builds too. Leech tanking that beam with vaal pact, youre not losing more than 1-2k hp at any point with some of these setups, you could walk in there with a 3.5k life build and facetank that beam off the back of vp. If you took ghost reaver out of the game completely people would just switch to 6k life builds with vaal pact and go in there doing exactly the same thing with the same skills. I think vp itself just becomes inherently broken in a few key situations like that and I dont think only nerfing it for ci or moving the node elsewhere on the tree is going to help, its just going to be people doing the same thing with different setups.

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Popieluch wrote:

There is no problem with players who have strong build abnd can faceroll everything. There is problem with average players who have a big trouble and being crashing becasue don't have OP build.
Stop being jelous and try break fun for some of players, becasue rest of them have problems is good for you? So toxic...

There is a big issue with OP builds facerolling everything brainlessely.

And there are problems with players that cannot get this, and that don't want to see their OP toys being put back into line.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

I think vp itself just becomes inherently broken in a few key situations like that and I dont think only nerfing it for ci or moving the node elsewhere on the tree is going to help, its just going to be people doing the same thing with different setups.

Reverting VP back to 100% effectivness was a huge mistake from GGG imho.
That plus the power creep and VP can break the balance itself.

Now, CI could really use a nerf, because most of its downsides are basically gone.
But yes, Vaal Pact needs to change, it is way to powerfull as soon as your toon start having (ridiculously) high dps.