SliverTongue Unique Is Poorly Made, Heres Why

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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eragon1111 wrote:

The Bow will be VERY good at clearing trash with right setup and build (already seen theorycrafted plans) problem is it will be utter shit on bosses. And we never had problems with clearing trash, people were rather clearing 2-3 screens away with pierce...

So the only real purpose endgame weapon should have is a focus on bosses, this one doesnt represent that.

Peace

Just become an Assassin and you get all those nasty "more" modifiers because of bleed. Besides, chances are those bosses will create adds for you or have adds around in the begin.

Problem is that after GGG nerfed puncture traps, bleed is a complete shit DoT debuff. Assassin doesnt need that bow at all to deal bleed dmg. You dont need 100% chance for bleed because it doesnt stack.

For Assassin, no matter what they do to Reach it will still be the best option (only not if they nerf dps to Quill Rain levels...)

Only hope for this bow is some weird interaction or bug with frost wall it might cause. But i doubt it. Ive tested pierce LA to compare it to barrage for bosses - for me personally it felt terrible.

I agree, it might be weaker Vs bosses, as you need adds for it to reach it's full effect. But then, Reach is kinda in the same boat.

Might need The Writhing Jar for targets to fork/chain from.

Well the bow seems kinda made for Deadeye with Rigwalds Quills. You get all you want for that bow.

From the damage side I would rate Opus and Reach above it, although we do not know how they change reach. But since again this bow has no %increased damage it again benefits a lot more than older bows from Quality

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Why do you think a forked projectile cannot pierce? I think a projectile can chain, then fork, then pierce if I got the order of priority correct.

Actually. Fork overrides ability to chain and Pierce overrides Fork and Chain. If you have Pierce you can never Chain or Fork, however you can Fork and Chain, since the Forked Projectiles can Chain and then Pierce due to the mod on the bow.

So the bow is terrifying for clearing trash, but rather weak on bosses. Considering it might be rather cheap you could use it for weapon swapping.

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It is not just bleed, but you will also have a chance to poison too and poison will also have the more damage modifier from crit. You cannot stack the same dot debuffs, but you can stick bleed with poison too.

I wouldn't be surprised if they trim that Assassin node a lot. Without the ability to get 8 points nobody picked it, because taking both infusions was the usual way, but even the original node was really powerful, just not as powerful as getting incredible base crit. Since even classes only benefiting from the 100% more poison damage on crit went there (those classes gained no benefit from the first node in the path, and no other benefit from the last node), I'm pretty sure they reconsider the Assassin.

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Emphasy wrote:

So the bow is terrifying for clearing trash, but rather weak on bosses. Considering it might be rather cheap you could use it for weapon swapping.

It drops from a Tier 16 map boss, so I don't think it's gonna be cheap.

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zSavage wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

So the bow is terrifying for clearing trash, but rather weak on bosses. Considering it might be rather cheap you could use it for weapon swapping.

It drops from a Tier 16 map boss, so I don't think it's gonna be cheap.

Look at Vertex :P

The question is how reliable it drops, if every single one drops it I doubt it will be that expensive. Not sure how accessible those bosses are, but I doubt it is so much different to Uber. But we will see, if the bow is decent it will have a fair price, but if it is only good for trash clearing people might look at other options, exspecially considering that Opus might still be fairly cheap.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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eragon1111 wrote:

Problem is that after GGG nerfed puncture traps, bleed is a complete shit DoT debuff. Assassin doesnt need that bow at all to deal bleed dmg. You dont need 100% chance for bleed because it doesnt stack.

For Assassin, no matter what they do to Reach it will still be the best option (only not if they nerf dps to Quill Rain levels...)

Only hope for this bow is some weird interaction or bug with frost wall it might cause. But i doubt it. Ive tested pierce LA to compare it to barrage for bosses - for me personally it felt terrible.

It is not just bleed, but you will also have a chance to poison too and poison will also have the more damage modifier from crit. You cannot stack the same dot debuffs, but you can stick bleed with poison too.

Lets tackle all the mods one by one ?



Adds phys dmg - basic, without it its plain bad doesnt shoot my ass to moon with that amount. Any Harb with Tyranical + master flat will have similar dps or more.

100% crit on fork for created arrows - useless on 99% of bosses in the game and useless for assassin. You will always use pierce.

Arrows on pierce cause bleed - nobody cares, bleed is terrible + assassin can bleed enemies by default.

Arrows always pierce after chaining - useless on 99% of bosses, useless when you have 100% pierce by default.
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Now lets tackle your arguments:
"It is not just bleed, but you will also have a chance to poison too" - thats the base concept of Assassin, this bow has nothing to do with that and doesnt improve/help with poison.

"more damage modifier from crit for DoTs" - Also base concept of Assassin it has nothing to do with this bow.

"You cannot stack the same dot debuffs" thats not true, you can stack poison and if thats some ALPHA info from AoW (good to know), if not this argument is plain wrong. (Ill probably prepare myself for this nerf in AoW just in case).

"can stick bleed with poison too" - thats just mechanics which are available to Assassin without this bow or can be obtained by any other ascendency/class simply by using PUNCTURE.

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Summary:

- Assassin and other classes/ascendencies can acquire everything this bow has to offer using other ways. (Nobody cares about clearing trash with fork)
- Bow has terrible DPS (even 300-350 would be low as hell, because of lack of crit)
- Bow mechanics dont help at all with stacking DoTs
- Everyone has an easy access to bleed
- You were able to list most of the mechanics connected to Assassin ascendency, which have nothing to do with Bow.
- Probably slipped possible nerf to poison from Alpha

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- Bow has terrible DPS (even 300-350 would be low as hell, because of lack of crit)

So wait. Reach was too strong with that amount of DPS, a similar amount of uselessness on bosses and even less crit.

The bow has 285dps and I assume that is a top rolled one, so yeah it is nothing too special. But again considering how reliable it might drop it could be a good way to clear trash exspecially for builds that could have issues with that.

Again Opus is likely stronger and I assume reach is as well despite being nerfed. The question for this bow is the price. If it is cheap it would be a good entry level bow, since you could easily switch to Opus to kill bosses. And if that is true it would actually be a well designed item, because it allows for reasonable upgrades.

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Emphasy wrote:

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- Bow has terrible DPS (even 300-350 would be low as hell, because of lack of crit)

So wait. Reach was too strong with that amount of DPS, a similar amount of uselessness on bosses and even less crit.

The bow has 285dps and I assume that is a top rolled one, so yeah it is nothing too special. But again considering how reliable it might drop it could be a good way to clear trash exspecially for builds that could have issues with that.

Again Opus is likely stronger and I assume reach is as well despite being nerfed. The question for this bow is the price. If it is cheap it would be a good entry level bow, since you could easily switch to Opus to kill bosses. And if that is true it would actually be a well designed item, because it allows for reasonable upgrades.

Reach was too strong because it had 350 dps and access to effectively an 7.5 link when you think about it

1extra link for implicit gmp
.5 extra link for the lack of gmps less mod

its single target "cough" "uselessness" is a myth since you can just use barrage tshot or frost wall la to gain a massive single target boost. reach single target was insanely strong. i didnt even focus much on damage and i was putting out 600k dps single target in some-cases


This bow is the exact opposite its bonuses work only if you use inefficient gems. which i would not call full links. using fork is akin to losing half a link same with chain . more importantly unlike gmp which can infact be used quite easily to shotgun with certain skills fork cannot. and while chain can.. you can just go LA.

the only good thing about the hydra bow is that technically it is a 300 dps crit base which sets a floor for crit bows.

the 100% crit fork .. is worthless in a game where i can get 95% base crit , same issue we saw with the 100 reduced crit not being a deterrent when using controlled destruction on crit builds ..


they might as well change the 100% crit on fork to projectiles fork or gems are supported by a level 20 fork.

either way.. i just cant see people using fork over a more multi gem.. because lets face it the bottom line is the current meta usually revoles around 4 damage supports 1 aoe support and the skill gem.

you pick the best aoe support you can roll with and then load up the deeps. this is why you wont ever see lmp after a4 normal, you wont see fork period after lmp and chain... is pretty much in the same boat for most cases .

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

Reach was too strong because it had 350 dps and access to effectively an 7.5 link when you think about it

1extra link for implicit gmp
.5 extra link for the lack of gmps less mod

its single target "cough" "uselessness" is a myth since you can just use barrage tshot or frost wall la to gain a massive single target boost. reach single target was insanely strong. i didnt even focus much on damage and i was putting out 600k dps single target in some-cases


This bow is the exact opposite its bonuses work only if you use inefficient gems. which i would not call full links. using fork is akin to losing half a link same with chain . more importantly unlike gmp which can infact be used quite easily to shotgun with certain skills fork cannot. and while chain can.. you can just go LA.

the only good thing about the hydra bow is that technically it is a 300 dps crit base which sets a floor for crit bows.

the 100% crit fork .. is worthless in a game where i can get 95% base crit , same issue we saw with the 100 reduced crit not being a deterrent when using controlled destruction on crit builds ..

Frostwall cheese won't work going forward. If you are looking for a source I don't have one, but I can't imagine they allow that cheese going forward.