How would you nerf [Reach Of The Council] but still keep it Viable?

i think that increasing the number of arrows from +4 to +6 additional arrows, would be a reasonable nerf.

By your logic, the bow is a tumor to both leagues currently. It's just that for one it's benign, the other malignant.

I don't think there's a good way to nerf it which doesn't involve changing how it works, basically completely reworking the unique mechanics.

Thematically and mechanically, its a very bland and boring unique, essentially offering a free gmp without mana cost or less damage multiplier, the only downside having reduced proj speed (which is negligible completely). Basically, in a nutshell it's just Moar damage to any skill that uses projectiles.

As such, balancing it is a dead end. Its power lies in free damage. And only way to nerf is to remove damage. But then it becomes a generic bow. So then you have to introduce a meaningful downside. Which I turn changes the unique makeup of the item.

Reach is fucked unless it's completely redesigned. Best left as legacy at this point imo

What about increasing the mana cost along with just making the +4 Arrows only when socketed into the Bow.

Something similar to Apep's Rage which increased Mana Cost but this one timed only to socketed Gems.

80% less projectile speed

Projectile Speed isnt something that matters much. Arrows have a very nice speed to begin with, compared to projectiles like Frostbolt or even Fireballs. And since you are very likely just filling the screen with arrows it wouldn't matter much.

A simpler solution would be to just remove the attackspeed mod on the bow. Doing this would turn it more into a good harbinger than into something that beats most of the equally expensive ones.

Right now the bow has a bit more dps than Lioneyes and having 4 projectiles is a bit better than not missing. Not to mention that lioneyes doesn't have crit. So Lioneyes should at least be compareable if you are non-crit build that is low on dex, but right now it is not. Even a char using Rain of Arrows would likely choose Reach over Lioneyes.

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Reach is fucked unless it's completely redesigned. Best left as legacy at this point imo

Honestly, the same is true for Lioneyes, Marohi Erqi, Disfavour, Kaoms Primacy, Doomsower and likely a whole lot of other items. The thing is most of them are common and a good entry for mapping, you want to upgrade them at some point with a good rare but they keep you going in maps. Disfavour has a similar degree of fucked upness, but it is even less common and it is a melee item so nobody cares. Disfavour basically discourages any rare crafting of 2h weapons. The same is true for reach.

A more drastic change to reach would be a complete change of the mod. How about doubling the amount of projectiles instead of adding a flat number? This would make the bow a lot more unique and you would still have to use GMP (otherwise you would end up with 2 arrows). You could send a lot of projectiles flying with split arrow which has some decent weaknesses in its own. It would make the item more interesting and it feels a lot less unbalancable as +4 projectiles.

Not gonna read nine pages of stuff.

But don't make the mistake grepman made. Reach of the Council has no unique mechanics. It is simply a powerful item with good values. +4 projectiles makes quite a few skills powerful since it gives them GMP without the downside and saving a socket.

My two chaos:

Give RotC a unique mechanic or discontinue it and remove it from the game, including legacy versions.

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Natharias wrote:

Not gonna read nine pages of stuff.

But don't make the mistake grepman made.

what mistake ?
what are you talking about ?

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grepman wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

Not gonna read nine pages of stuff.

But don't make the mistake grepman made.

what mistake ?
what are you talking about ?

This:

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basically completely reworking the unique mechanics.

More projectiles isn't a true-unique mechanic.

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Emphasy wrote:

Honestly, the same is true for Lioneyes, Marohi Erqi, Disfavour, Kaoms Primacy, Doomsower and likely a whole lot of other items. The thing is most of them are common and a good entry for mapping, you want to upgrade them at some point with a good rare but they keep you going in maps. Disfavour has a similar degree of fucked upness, but it is even less common and it is a melee item so nobody cares. Disfavour basically discourages any rare crafting of 2h weapons. The same is true for reach.

the question in this thread is how to nerf reach and keep it viable; not other items that need to be nerfed.

but about those items-

lioneyes isnt better than a harbinger with crit for any build. reach can be.

disfavour is uber atziri item, so it's gated enough for it to be powerful.

kaoms primacy is mostly a leveling unique at this point

marohi is arguable, I would make its attack speed lower and MS penalty higher.

doomsower- not sure, but its crit is very meh.

Id argue reach's main 'feature' (4 additional projectiles for every skill for no penalty or mana) is more powerful than any of these unique features.