How would you nerf [Reach Of The Council] but still keep it Viable?

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grepman wrote:

Im not sure how its not a unique mechanic, there arent many items granting multiple projectiles. you cant get extra projectile on a rare aside from vaaling a quiver or bow. and you sure as hell cant get 4 extra ones.

but ok, let's say, unique 'feature' instead (semantics ;))

If more projectiles is a unique mechanic, then the LMP and GMP drop rates and vendor availability need to be looked into.

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Natharias wrote:

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grepman wrote:

Im not sure how its not a unique mechanic, there arent many items granting multiple projectiles. you cant get extra projectile on a rare aside from vaaling a quiver or bow. and you sure as hell cant get 4 extra ones.

but ok, let's say, unique 'feature' instead (semantics ;))

If more projectiles is a unique mechanic, then the LMP and GMP drop rates and vendor availability need to be looked into.

LMP and GMP aren't unique items. unique items are those that provide stats or mechanics rare items do not.

looks like you're arguing semantics...

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Zaanus wrote:

No nerf needed.

It's a league item with unknown future accessibility. It's not absolute best in slot for even the skills its strong for. There are numerous bow skills it doesnt work with at all.

Asking ggg to give it the cloak of defiance treatment is short sighted.

Raid of Arrows, Blast Rain, Caustic Arrow, basically all the bow skills that don't create projectiles but instead place aoes

Ok, technically it "works" but their mechanics are such that it's kinda pointless vs items at half the trouble.

So long as the meta is "shoot LA into a frost wall" or "stack dat poison with tshot" then sure, this will be a very strong bow.

But change the meta, and this doesn't look as good (but still good). It's what happened to CoD and countless other good uniques that didn't really need nerfed, or didn't need anywhere near the nerf they got.

To hell with everyone telling to nerf this beautiful rare item.

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Emphasy wrote:

A more drastic change to reach would be a complete change of the mod. How about doubling the amount of projectiles instead of adding a flat number? This would make the bow a lot more unique and you would still have to use GMP (otherwise you would end up with 2 arrows). You could send a lot of projectiles flying with split arrow which has some decent weaknesses in its own. It would make the item more interesting and it feels a lot less unbalancable as +4 projectiles.

+1 for this suggestion.

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grepman wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

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grepman wrote:

Im not sure how its not a unique mechanic, there arent many items granting multiple projectiles. you cant get extra projectile on a rare aside from vaaling a quiver or bow. and you sure as hell cant get 4 extra ones.

but ok, let's say, unique 'feature' instead (semantics ;))

If more projectiles is a unique mechanic, then the LMP and GMP drop rates and vendor availability need to be looked into.

LMP and GMP aren't unique items. unique items are those that provide stats or mechanics rare items do not.

looks like you're arguing semantics...

that doesn't qualify as semantics. do not shame the glorious name of semantics.

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mynameisonlyforthegods wrote:

[

that doesn't qualify as semantics. do not shame the glorious name of semantics.

sure it does. 'unique' mechanic vs 'mechanic of a unique'.
in his context, he sees a 'unique' feature of a unique item being 'unique' across the whole game.

in my context, I see a 'unique' feature of a unique item only compared to rare/magic/normal item you can equip (and not a skill gem/jewel)

empire's grasp is a unique with unique mechanic by both our definitions
whereas reverberation rod has unique mechanic only by my definition

Didn't read all pages, but the one suggestion of it having +1-+4 arrows gave me an idea.

+1-+4 arrows roll and with each arrow it will also give less% phys/projectile damage

+1 arrow 5% less dmg
+2 arrow 10% less dmg
...

You could actually find your own sweetspot with the amount of extra projectiles you want, depending what skill you use and if you have other sources of additional arrows and give it a little drawback

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Zaanus wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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Zaanus wrote:

There are numerous bow skills it doesnt work with at all.

Wat.

Raid of Arrows, Blast Rain, Caustic Arrow, basically all the bow skills that don't create projectiles but instead place aoes

Ok, technically it "works" but their mechanics are such that it's kinda pointless vs items at half the trouble.

So long as the meta is "shoot LA into a frost wall" or "stack dat poison with tshot" then sure, this will be a very strong bow.

But change the meta, and this doesn't look as good (but still good). It's what happened to CoD and countless other good uniques that didn't really need nerfed, or didn't need anywhere near the nerf they got.

lolz
many posts about a nerf that won't happen.

TS is just funny and reach is a funny item, it only really works for assassins because of its low crit and because of how stupidly op poison is atm.

like the dude said; change the meta and rebalance that stuff, ROTC is fine as it is now and will stay fine as it is after the meta change, specially because its a league only.

Also, they can "nerf" it by indirectly rebalancing (aka making them endgame usable) other unique bows which are trash atm. Maybe buff gmp/lmp.

Not like GGG even care about the state of game balance.

I've been meaning for a while to run the numbers - realistically I don't care enough to do so but hey... Even without doing so, based on a 6% crit base which means inc crit strikes (versus no need for that and the ability to gain another more multiplier), this is basically a ~330 pdps 8.5% crit harbinger. Maybe 350 at a stretch. Dropping 2.5% base crit is probably equal to GMP damage penalty. Tell me if I'm wrong.

As some have said, the bow's not poor by a long shot. But thing is, how many of you bitched and moaned about a 600 pdps axe being added (more than you can roll on ANY rare axe with T1 %phys, aspd, flat phys)? Why do you care about a bow better than most well-rolled harbingers but you don't give a crap that Disfavour is better for lower cost than just about any rare on the market? Did you do your calculations prior to any ascendancies or just presume Reach plus poison = 1000000 dps bow whereas any other bow sucks cause dude I read a guide once...?

Please, run the goddamn numbers to work out how much difference 3% base crit plus up to 230 pdps more a rare bow can add. People are posting hysteria about double-dipping, not real maths. No fricken way does a 6% base crit bow with 370 pdps equal a 600 pdps 9.xx% crit bow. Don't be dumb.

PS: with that 3% base difference, you can actually not go assassin.