Pay 2 Win Premium Tabs Features - why GGG lies
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It is possible to create trade-specific p2w features. Currently, all p2w in PoE is trade-centric.
Anything which is behind a paywall AND saves you time and effort trading is p2w. I said all this already. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Apr 3, 2016, 7:55:11 PM
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" No, because trading does not equal winning. Only if it had a feature that would guarantee you a trade, one that will always give you your item and at a predefined price, could it be Pay2Win. It still may not be Pay2Win depending on the actual function of the item... For example, if you were to trade with vanity items. But because player trading is entirely in the hands of the players is there no such thing. There is no guarantee for a win, nor has anyone ever come up with a Pay2Lose feature yet. Another reason why premium stash tabs aren't pay to win are the price fluctuations of items on the market. One may think that with stash tabs one now can make a killing with trading, but who is to say that it may not have been wiser to hold onto the items? What may now seem as a win in trading can well turn out to be a loss further down the road. By the way... I did trade a lot in EVE Online. I have made more than 180 billion ISKs (with a "b"), some of which I have turned into PLEX - an item that equals one month of game time - and I am (still) sitting on more than 100 of those PLEX items. I have made literally a profit in in-game currency, which equals 7-8 years of purchasable game time, or about 1090 dollars worth of subscriptions if you will. And someone had to pay for those. So while I won big, because I used an SQL database, spreadsheets, live ticker and Perl + Java scripts (all allowed 3rd party tools), must I have made many others lose. Ergo, trading cannot equal winning. Unless one chooses to go the very liberal route by saying "we are all winners", is it often that trading makes the rich only richer and the poor only poorer. Thus I must conclude that a trading feature not only isn't Pay2Win, but it's going to make a lot of players lose. |
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" And again you're conflating two ideas that are separate, the amount of win vs if it's p2w. You don't factor in how much gain there is in determining if something is p2w only if there is gain. Meaning it doesn't have to give you literally a trade, only an advantage relative to those who don't have it. What you're arguing is like saying 'this ice cream tastes so little like ice cream it's literally not ice cream'. That's logically invalid. |
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" You do realize that you've gone off the crazy end now, right? A sentence like you've just give as an example 'this ice cream tastes so little like ice cream it's literally not ice cream' can be an actual statement that one uses to speak the truth. I actually happen to have studied mathematics. A science, which requires you to make valid and logic statements all the time. What you've done in your sentence is known as "proof by contradiction" - a method where you make an assumption and by proofing that the assumption is wrong do you prove that ergo the opposite must be true. So the "assumed ice cream", that literally doesn't taste like ice cream, does so, because it's dog shit. This is also your mistake here. You assume it is Pay2Win. |
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" This statement is only TRUE if there isn't alternative ways to get those "features" for free. Which you can get UNLIMITED stash space for FREE. In terms of saving time and effort, having the knowledge to price items is what saves time and effort by that logic I p2w just by having played this game over time. Following that logic anyone with more knowlwedge then someone else is p2winning. That is why your argument fails. This whole fucking topic is stupid as fuck though. Anyone willing to bitch about this, but not spend ~$25 just further proves how entitled this bullshit community is and the dumbass people that post on the forums here and NEVER play the game. (give you a hint one person is clearly posting in this thread) Regardless GGG isn't going to do shit different, could they eventually allow regular tabs to do what premium did, maybe, maybe not. I would say probably not because its along the same idea that its "worst" to sell a product only to change the product later into something less appealing. So if they do anything its a free premium tab, even then thats directly pulling money out of their pocket for people that would only buy a few tabs. People in this thread acting all fucking childish over one of the dumbest fucking things to argue about. Lets argue how perandus is a shit league, lets argue how the general casualization of this game kills the fun for anyone that wants to play it for more then 2 weeks. Lets talk about how GGG balances the stuff the same exact way patch after patch, at least since 2.0. Lets talk about how people hate the lab and want to turn that into an optional, casual enchantment shitfest like in D3. No instead we gotta argue how tabs are P2W because, although the option is there for free and unlimited free it saves such a small amount of time over time that it makes a big difference. Yeah ok whatever dude. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
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" I was trying to illustrate the fallacy of requiring a p2w feature to have passed some arbitrary amount of win it gives before you'll acknowledge it's p2w. |
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Dude you don't need 40 Prem stash tabs, in fact all I needed was 3-4 stash tabs for trading. And I got to a 100 on PHC with only 3-4. So, is it hard for you to throw 5 dollars to support this free to play game? And, this is fucking optional. You can still use Procurement/Acquisition and sell all your shit from there. For example, I DID NOT buy the currency stash tab because I don't enjoy having only currency in my tab, I like to throw other stuff in there, like items, maps, something for crafting, etc. This is a matter of preference, so if I were you I'd quit whining about it and stop being so pathetic.
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"Your "FREE" isn't free. It doesn't cost money, but it does cost time. If a game had officially sanctioned RMT for drops, would that NOT be p2w in your book, because those drops are fully farmable if you take the time to do so? It'd definitely be p2w to me. I understand the worst p2w goes for exclusives, things you can NEVER get if you don't pay. Thank god that isn't the case here. But getting stuff you can get for free, but faster, for a fee... that's still p2w, even if much less sinister. Edit: Thinking about this a bit more, I don't consider a game which holds exclusive content hostage for money to even be worthy of the f2p label. World of Warcraft lets you play a portion of its game for free before you hit a paywall, but no reasonable person would call WoW f2p - maybe "free trial" or "free demo" but not free period. In the same way, paid exclusives aren't free games at all, but paid games with free trials. "I think it's silly not to support GGG if you play their game, enjoy it, and want more. Or really even just the last one. But to me, it's not about money, it's about one inaccurate sentence on pathofexile.com/game. I'm not on a crusade to get it changed, mind you. I think it's inaccurate, I think it should be changed, I don't care much past that, and I argue with you mostly because I'm bored. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Apr 3, 2016, 10:02:45 PM
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100% agree with Scrotie. Any paid QoL feature can be considered P2W. It's not really a discussion, that's just fact.
The definition of a quality of life feature is something that saves time. Time saved is more time spent trading or mapping or whatever, getting you more and more currency, items, and experience. In the same way, characters with clear speed have a HUGE advantage over slower characters (nothing wrong with this, it's just an example). They can clear far more maps in far less time, and get far more items, experience, and currency in return. Saying otherwise is like saying transport trucks aren't an advantage because you can totally just carry all those goods across the country, all it takes is time. |
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" Best way to describe is like League of Legends. League of Legends is clearly P2W. You can technically farm up enough IP to get all the Champions/Runes/Rune Pages you need to remain competitive, but that takes an enormous amount of time that most normal people do not have. Having access to rune pages/champions etc. that others have to take time to unlock is a P2W advantage. Period. |
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