It's finally time to balance groups

"

wrathmar wrote:

For particles, how about allowing players to control the transparency of team mates effects? If I could set my team mates spells to be 80% transparent I could actually see what is going on in the game.

doesnt really solve the problem. It is more like hiding the problem.

In a boss fight in a 6 men team, you'll see 6 players throw everything on a single spot wheres the boss is sitting at. 6 layers of particle effect stacking on a single spot trying to kill that thing over an extended time.

Can you imaging if we take your suggestion adding even more HP over the current 60%? By then even blue monster will take a while to kill with 6 layers of particle effects stacking on it. HP buffing is a really bad suggestion

IMO, I still prefer GGG to even remove the current 60% monster HP buff entirely, and opt to cut our attack speed when we are in team. It is not like we need all those kind of DPS when we are in team, most of the time things die b4 we can chain our 3rd-5th attack or even start our first.

Not convince? Get a couple of COC guys, do a normal map vs the one with temporal chain, then you'll see the difference

"

silumit wrote:

This solution will either do nothing (because CoC/lolnir will still be producing a bajillion of effects) or gimp everybody except maybe CoC/lolnir so hard the forum will be flooded with whine (which, surprisingly, will be justified).

Well I see this coming lol, it is probably easiest most straight forward solution. It doesnt 100% solve the problem entirely.

I actually much prefer to have those skills gone or even have CoC taking spell mana cost or may be even have attack speed/cast speed come with diminish return like how Armor/Evasion work.

@Darkkrows

You are right, reducing player attack and cast speed would help reduce the particle issue, and DPS vs monster life. I've added that to my original post.

That said, if GGG reduces attack/cast speed without providing monsters some way to defend against 6 way AOE-Focus Fire. Groups will still crush most content, and all that will change is a small charge time delay.

So how could they balance around AOE-Focus Fire? I can think of the following options
1. Nerf AOE damage
2. Increase the cost of AOE attacks
3. Add cool downs to some AOEs
4. Have AOE deal more damage in the center and less at the edges (and a unique that reverses this)
5. Add a monster defensive stat specific to incoming AOE damage

6 players are very hard to balance around...

"

grant_m wrote:

I like 1 & 2

Don't think 3 and 5 are necessary if 1 & 2 are done properly.
Unsure about 4. I guess if there were other ways other than one specific unique, then it might be okay.

But we should probably check with goetz to be certain ;)

3 isn't possible aside from vaal skills because PoE already limits the skills you can use by having socketed gems with supports. This isn't D3 where you can balance the game with cooldown (which are completely bypassed by the cooldown reduction stat come endgame.


Aoe skills are known to do great damage, however this has absolutely nothing to do with party balance aoe skills are just as broken in solo play as they are in party play, suggesting otherwise is just wrong. Most powerful aoe skills were nerfed in the last patch, aside from the new ones that got added, which will be adjusted come next patch.

This is a completely different topic OP, not sure why you are mentioning it now, unless you see your original point as pointless, which I will have to commend you on that part if that is the case.

"

I do not need to level past a specific level threshold to have an opinion on game balance. Even if my current 3+ days /played toon was my first, and I didn't spend MANY days played in closed beta... My assessment that groups in this game turn challenging complex content into a joke, is spot on accurate!

You are welcome to give your experience or opinion, but you are posting on a public forum and I'm allowed to tell you that you are not only wrong because of a lack of experience but also wrong in general. If you want to give private feedback you can either post on here and immediately ask for the thread to be locked (for support) or just email support and see if they would forward the message along.


You have nothing worth anyone reading IMO in this thread and you actually lack addressing any of the points I made, just do as you usually do which is just make smartass remarks and neglect actually replying back to points which you can't possibly address, how do I know this, is because you and your new "fanboi" haven't responded to a single one, but still have read my post.

"

wrathmar wrote:

@Darkkrows

You are right, reducing player attack and cast speed would help reduce the particle issue, and DPS vs monster life. I've added that to my original post.

That said, if GGG reduces attack/cast speed without providing monsters some way to defend against 6 way AOE-Focus Fire. Groups will still crush most content, and all that will change is a small charge time delay.

So how could they balance around AOE-Focus Fire? I can think of the following options
1. Nerf AOE damage
2. Increase the cost of AOE attacks
3. Add cool downs to some AOEs
4. Have AOE deal more damage in the center and less at the edges (and a unique that reverses this)
5. Add a monster defensive stat specific to incoming AOE damage

6 players are very hard to balance around...

Actually... I do not intent to change the player dps vs monster HP ratio, like how u have suggested. I still prefer to have some form incentive to team over solo.

What I want is merely shifting from buffing the monster HP to nerfing player attack/speed.

Currently
Monster get +60% hp per player + player attack the same speed as solo.

My Suggestion
Monster get less +hp% per player than the 60% + player attack speed get slightly slower per additional player vs solo.(not too slow to be annoying)

the clear speed of both case are about the same. It is the same thing, the main difference is I do not get as much skill spam on the second scenario.

To be honest, I never quite under the logic behind buffing monster HP only, additional players in a team, should have been balance on both the player dps and monster hp.

honestly all the above are just rough fix, the root cause of the problem are still CoC itself. That gem together with spell echo/multi strike/double strike need some form of balance.

This thread isn't about group balance at all, considering I do the exact same thing to monsters without a party.

It's getting old people are baking threads with an agenda as oppose to actually just outright stating what they want.

Actual serious group balance issue is stuff like party + mf culler, splitting map costs between a large group, ect drastically making it better then solo play. Not the amount of particles on the screen or how fast a group can clear.

"

goetzjam wrote:

You have nothing worth anyone reading IMO in this thread and you actually lack addressing any of the points I made, just do as you usually do which is just make smartass remarks and neglect actually replying back to points which you can't possibly address, how do I know this, is because you and your new "fanboi" haven't responded to a single one, but still have read my post.

Actually Gran_m and I have been posting on this forum for YEARS. I would call him an old acquaintance and not a "fanboi". Maybe the reason we are not wasting out time replying to you, is because you are a jerk, who would rather sling insults than be productive. You do not win friends by calling people stupid.

@Darkkrows
Yes they would need to control both Player DPS and monster defense/HP to find a good balance. Yes some of the newer skills make particle spam significantly worse. Adding a form of diminishing return on CoC, and a accuracy penalty on multi-strike would be a good start.


@RagnarokChu
Overlapping particle effects that completely obscure the encounter causing 'blindness' and out of control group DPS that crushes content before players can interact is an issue.

Should GGG add some QOL improvements for map rolling cost? sure

Back in closed beta this 'hardcore ARPG' was actually challenging. With the exception of spike damage boss encounters, every patch has made the Single player content easier which in turn has made parties even more imbalanced in terms of damage output vs monster HP. This thread is not some sneaky way push an 'agenda'...I'm just typing my feedback/suggestions

Should GGG look to single player DPS output as a component of party DPS? Absolutely

"

Actually Gran_m and I have been posting on this forum for YEARS. I would call him an old acquaintance and not a "fanboi". Maybe the reason we are not wasting out time replying to you, is because you are a jerk, who would rather sling insults than be productive. You do not win friends by calling people stupid.

He actually has replied to my specific points, although once I called him out on his bullshit replies or more importantly his comment about how he thinks your view is more important then someone that actually experiences the game content I lost the respect he has earned so far, at least for this particular issue.

The simple fact of the matter is even though I call you out on not addressing my points because you can't you STILL choose not to, the best way to counter my "insults" which are merely just facts in this case is by addressing my points or finding a flaw in my argument, but you can't which just points back to an actual lack of experience with the game itself.

"

Should GGG add some QOL improvements for map rolling cost? sure

As if you have a single idea about endgame maps. Its clear you have NO idea about endgame maps because you don't have any experience with them, unless you are referring to the old 66's or the new 68s.

"

Back in closed beta this 'hardcore ARPG' was actually challenging.

It is still apparently challenging for you to level high enough to do endgame content.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Spoiler

Spoiler

"

goetzjam wrote:

You have nothing worth anyone reading IMO in this thread and you actually lack addressing any of the points I made, just do as you usually do which is just make smartass remarks and neglect actually replying back to points which you can't possibly address, how do I know this, is because you and your new "fanboi" haven't responded to a single one, but still have read my post.

"

Actually Gran_m and I have been posting on this forum for YEARS. I would call him an old acquaintance and not a "fanboi". Maybe the reason we are not wasting out time replying to you, is because you are a jerk, who would rather sling insults than be productive. You do not win friends by calling people stupid.

He actually has replied to my specific points, although once I called him out on his bullshit replies or more importantly his comment about how he thinks your view is more important then someone that actually experiences the game content I lost the respect he has earned so far, at least for this particular issue.

The simple fact of the matter is even though I call you out on not addressing my points because you can't you STILL choose not to, the best way to counter my "insults" which are merely just facts in this case is by addressing my points or finding a flaw in my argument, but you can't which just points back to an actual lack of experience with the game itself.

"

Should GGG add some QOL improvements for map rolling cost? sure

As if you have a single idea about endgame maps. Its clear you have NO idea about endgame maps because you don't have any experience with them, unless you are referring to the old 66's or the new 68s.

"

Back in closed beta this 'hardcore ARPG' was actually challenging.

It is still apparently challenging for you to level high enough to do endgame content

You are not providing anything productive to the conversation.

"

wrathmar wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Spoiler

Spoiler

"

goetzjam wrote:

You have nothing worth anyone reading IMO in this thread and you actually lack addressing any of the points I made, just do as you usually do which is just make smartass remarks and neglect actually replying back to points which you can't possibly address, how do I know this, is because you and your new "fanboi" haven't responded to a single one, but still have read my post.

"

Actually Gran_m and I have been posting on this forum for YEARS. I would call him an old acquaintance and not a "fanboi". Maybe the reason we are not wasting out time replying to you, is because you are a jerk, who would rather sling insults than be productive. You do not win friends by calling people stupid.

He actually has replied to my specific points, although once I called him out on his bullshit replies or more importantly his comment about how he thinks your view is more important then someone that actually experiences the game content I lost the respect he has earned so far, at least for this particular issue.

The simple fact of the matter is even though I call you out on not addressing my points because you can't you STILL choose not to, the best way to counter my "insults" which are merely just facts in this case is by addressing my points or finding a flaw in my argument, but you can't which just points back to an actual lack of experience with the game itself.

"

Should GGG add some QOL improvements for map rolling cost? sure

As if you have a single idea about endgame maps. Its clear you have NO idea about endgame maps because you don't have any experience with them, unless you are referring to the old 66's or the new 68s.

"

Back in closed beta this 'hardcore ARPG' was actually challenging.

It is still apparently challenging for you to level high enough to do endgame content

You are not providing anything productive to the conversation.

Much like your contributions to this conversation as well. Again you fail to address the points because you can't, I urge you to just try.