It's finally time to balance groups

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wrathmar wrote:

@ GoatzJam

I've seen the suggestion to link total number of portals to contributed currency. I could see the need for some QOL improvements surrounding mapping, maybe add a 2*6 grid to the map device UI for party members to contribute currency. The party leader then can us them to roll real time and members can see the results.

Regarding group communications, I would like to see the chat system overhauled, and I think user defined chat short cuts would be nice (ctrl+t = send TP please; ctrl+e = corpse exploder)

@ mark1030

I did not intend my original response to be dismissive. Yes solo OP balance is a major issue which causes many issues with parties. I'll think this over and update my OP later tonight...

GGG needs to be more proactive with balancing both mid and late game. Maybe they should rethink their Alpha Testing to better catch skill imbalances.

Maybe adding some additional hard caps to limit top tier damage, or nerf specific support gems, and AOE in general.

Maybe having the next league be flashback inspired and disable some skills/Uniques.

You should find people to map with you trust more instead of just mapping with random pubs IMO, the qol you are asking for shouldn't really be something GGG puts a lot of effort into.

There are ways outside the game to do keyboard shortcuts for those commands. Not that that is a great solution but it does exists.

I like full parties in D1, D2 and D3. In PoE the maximum I can stand is a group of 3. After that it becomes awkward for reasons that have all been mentioned in this thread.

The only suggestion I have besides technical optimizations is to give AoE attacks to many monsters. IF the same mob gets 6 targets instead of 1 but can only attack one of them at a time that single target mob could only be balanced by stupid oneshot attacks if you don't go the mob AoE way.

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kcstar wrote:

Quoted you because this part I can agree with. zana rota is the only time I use pub partys/group play (effectively), map level is most of the time low enough - even if you fuck up a situation you will prbly survive... but playing with more than 2 ppl in a party without voice is asking for a RIP. [/url]

Aye agree...if I play my totem guy, as soon as I use pop my two sire of shard flame totems, you wont see a stack of bearers ground attack under you.

Groups should be limited to 5 players instead of 6 and the game should be balanced around these smaller groups. Of course further changes are needed, some good suggestions OP.

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LSN wrote:

Groups should be limited to 5 players instead of 6 and the game should be balanced around these smaller groups. Of course further changes are needed, some good suggestions OP.

What makes 5 better then 6 in terms of balance, like I don't understand why you would drop by and say this without putting forth any argument on why you think that is the case?

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mark1030 wrote:

But as A problem with parties, it's the result of a different problem, not the cause of it. Parties aren't powerful because they're parties. They are powerful because individual builds are so powerful they don't even notice more monster health. It's really not much different than d2's /players 8 command. The extra monster life is easily overcome by powerful builds. Makes no difference if you are solo in /players 8 or in an actual 8 person party. Strong builds don't benefit from a party other than the extra loot.

very true , but i think we are focusing too much on just the issue of op builds ruining parties
when if you look at party play as a mechanic as a whole it is really really bare bones compared recent games in the genre.

it is really bad from a qol perspective as well.
the loot mechanics are the worst offender. instead of having instance loot for each player we have a shared loot system.

but that shared loot system means loot clutter as you have to deal with 6 peoples worth of shit on the screen.

so ggg reduces the extra drops per person so that for each extra person in a group ... you technically get less and less drops between everyone. this makes partying without a dedicated culler to prop the drops back up inherently unrewarding for players as the will spend most of their time barely picking anything up.

then there is the portal system in maps... 1 player gets 6 tries . 6 people get .. 1 try while the mobs get 60x5 % increased hp. This is only a non issue now because of those few what the fuck super clearing builds out there that naturally do 5xs the damage of everyone else.

but it is still a fact that for builds that dont over kill like that. group play becomes a slow grind

this is really really notable for builds that flat out dont work if mobs / bosses dont die on schedule. like builds that dont rely on surgeons flasks or builds that use duration based abilities to beat bosses.

and then there is the on kill effects system. do you have a build that fucking needs to kill shit to keep their charges up? needs those charges to actually function? Well you better be that one asshole doing 5x over kill damage or you are basically stuck with no charges.

seriously why havent ggg added the ability for mobs to reward players with on kill effects if they helped in the kill?

And what about path blocking? ever tried to attack a single boss with 3 summoners worth of minions? cant fucking be done. you will be lucky if half the minions actually get to hit the mob.


then there is the fact that the pub boards are used as bloody shops.


So yeah it isnt just assholes killing fast that makes groups a slog. groups were awful since day 1 of this games inception.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

So yeah it isnt just assholes killing fast that makes groups a slog. groups were awful since day 1 of this games inception.

Yet people still do it regardless of what issues do exists, which goes to prove people want to party, that playstyle method shouldn't be destroyed.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

So yeah it isnt just assholes killing fast that makes groups a slog. groups were awful since day 1 of this games inception.

Yet people still do it regardless of what issues do exists, which goes to prove people want to party, that playstyle method shouldn't be destroyed.

of course people want to party , its a freaking multiplayer game. If i am going to play an arpg that requires an internet connection to function I am going to want the option to play with people and not have the experience degraded.

but that's the problem, the experience in groups is degraded . it is explicitly inferior to solo play unless you do very specific things to fix it.

dont want an asshole killing everything? oh thats easy dont invite those people
want drops to not be worthless? oh that's easy roll with a culler
want a group that works as a group ? oh that's easy too just go play in a guild and forget the public party system even exists.
want your charges? oh dont worry i am sure some one will pack conduit just for you.
Want people to wait while you sell shit , sure lets get some buddies for that.

all of that is just a band-aid.

its like someone selling you a car with out an engine or wheels and you say its fine after buying a separate engine and a set of wheels for it.

sure if you really wanted that car.. that works for you. but its not exactly selling itself to people who might like it or not and thus pubs are basically dead.

Off topic:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

...groups were awful since day 1 of this games inception.

Not true, the forced loot tension of old was brilliant and added a great element of engaging and entertaining play to what became otherwise lackluster partying.

Ahem, carry on...

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Off topic:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

...groups were awful since day 1 of this games inception.

Not true, the forced loot tension of old was brilliant and added a great element of engaging and entertaining play to what became otherwise lackluster partying.

Ahem, carry on...

awful since day 1