It's finally time to balance groups

"

mark1030 wrote:

One of my biggest problems with Diablo3 is that they limit parties to just 4 people. I do not want this game to do that.

My only problem with parties is the game optimization. Some spammed skills set my graphics card on fire. Nobody would play in parties if there was this mythimcal "balance" you are trying to obtain. If there was no advantage to playing in a party, everybody would solo. Seriously, if you nerf my attack/cast speed or damage so that parties aren't more powerful than solo, why the hell would I want to play in a party? And increasing monster damage in a party isn't balance, it's punishing. Have you seen the armour formula? Armour is less effective with harder hits. So any armour character is going to avoid parties because the chance of getting killed and losing experience is greater.

So, I disagree with pretty much every one of your suggestions.

I'm suggesting a reduction to 4 because it would be easier to balance than a 6.

"If there was no advantage to playing in a party, everybody would solo."
The current balance is
Parties >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Solo.

I'm suggesting that GGG fix this to be closer to

Parties >>>> Solo

"

goetzjam wrote:

Not going to strait up say you are too inexperienced when it comes to the game to comment on group play, but......you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

No to limiting parties to less players.
No to buffing monsters in extreme ways.

No to just everything you said.

"

Fixing this *MAJOR* game imbalance would improve my enjoyment and benefit the overall game.

Your enjoyment......which appears to be what exactly?

Grouping in PoE is obviously beneficial but it also has some issues in terms of synergy and mistakes. Playing in a full party can get you killed due to someone killing a pack of bearers or not calling out volitile blood, aggroing monsters that people aren't ready for, ect ect.

GGG should not be changing one of the best aspects of the game (playing with others) just because you don't enjoy that. Make some friend or you know actually play the game so you have an understanding of what goes on so you can make threads like this. Until you do so I have 0 respect for your thread and anything you suggest, anyone that does their "research" would come up with the same conclusion.

Goat, I've been playing this game much longer than you have. I've experienced how it has grown and changed over the years. I have plenty of 'experance' playing the game, and while my play time in maps is limited, there is this cool site called youtube that I can watch hours and hours of other people playing.... guess what the same spam clusterfuck is present in maps.

I feel the OP points to a real problem area, but his suggestions are, as goetzjam said, no, just no.

The biggest problem with party bonuses at the moment is the monster bonus to life (for reference: 20% increase per additional player in Normal, 40% Cruel, 60% Merciless). By maps, this number needs to increase to at least 100%. It just stands to reason that 3 players should deal, on average, three times the DPS as one player. Currently, partying is mostly about running around as a small cluster of ranged DPS and just murdering whole packs because of the DPS advantage.

"

wrathmar wrote:

Goat, I've been playing this game much longer than you have. I've experienced how it has grown and changed over the years. I have plenty of 'experance' playing the game, and while my play time in maps is limited, there is this cool site called youtube that I can watch hours and hours of other people playing.... guess what the same spam clusterfuck is present in maps.

We've been thru this before, just because you paid $5 or $10 before me doesn't mean I haven't been following and more importantly playing much more then you.


You may be able to watch streams and follow the forums to gain experience, but that experience is rather mute compared to someone that actually plays the game.

You admit yourself here your playtime in maps is limited, yet you claim stuff regarding the balance of parities, which you cannot have ANY real experience on needs changed.



"i can watch hours and hours of people play" therefore I can make judgement based on the current state of the game, which you've NEVER experienced. By that logic I have 2 monitors when I play I also watch twitch streamers, that means that I get double the experience of you, well more because I actually play this game and have experience with endgame maps.

Have you never watched an ARPG, its pretty much always spam shit to kill monsters, thats literally what the genre is about. Tactical play with ARPG has never really been a thing.


@scrotie

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that change, but I don't think it needs to be that drastic at the start. Maybe just bump up merciless to 80 and see where that leads. Party play should be actively encouraged, not discouraged, even if party play provides other benefits.

I usually prefer small groups 2-3 players and never had any problems with grouping in PoE... but Talisman league has forced me to play in pub parties sometimes... wow... I thought PoE has some problems which some of them are really annoying but fuck... now I already vomit thinking about the clusterfuck that is called party "play" in PoE -.-

Don't know how to fix this shit but I hope there will be less forcing to party "play" in the future. >.>

game optimization is key before you even think about how to rework groups.

I wont comment on your balance ideas but poe badly needs a way to minimize particles, its stated everyday and what do ggg do stuff a huge amount more in with 2.0.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

wrathmar wrote:

Spoiler

Goat, I've been playing this game much longer than you have. I've experienced how it has grown and changed over the years. I have plenty of 'experance' playing the game, and while my play time in maps is limited, there is this cool site called youtube that I can watch hours and hours of other people playing.... guess what the same spam clusterfuck is present in maps.

Spoiler

We've been thru this before, just because you paid $5 or $10 before me doesn't mean I haven't been following and more importantly playing much more then you.


You may be able to watch streams and follow the forums to gain experience, but that experience is rather mute compared to someone that actually plays the game.

You admit yourself here your playtime in maps is limited, yet you claim stuff regarding the balance of parities, which you cannot have ANY real experience on needs changed.



"i can watch hours and hours of people play" therefore I can make judgement based on the current state of the game, which you've NEVER experienced. By that logic I have 2 monitors when I play I also watch twitch streamers, that means that I get double the experience of you, well more because I actually play this game and have experience with endgame maps.

Have you never watched an ARPG, its pretty much always spam shit to kill monsters, thats literally what the genre is about. Tactical play with ARPG has never really been a thing.


@scrotie

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that change, but I don't think it needs to be that drastic at the start. Maybe just bump up merciless to 80 and see where that leads. Party play should be actively encouraged, not discouraged, even if party play provides other benefits.

Yes we have covered this before, Just because you have played larger total number of hours does not invalidate my experiences or opinions.

I've played mostly solo, but have also spent a large amount of time in groups. A 6 person party of pixilated DPS turns the game content into a *JOKE*. Their is minimal tactics involved, just spam spam spam non-target specific AOE attacks. This game dynamic is obvious after the first 1 hour, I doubt that it is going to change after hour 1,000.

Scrotie, Buffing monster HP has proven to be ineffective to this point. Without changing other defensive qualities buffing HP would not be enough. I don't expect GGG to implement my changes without testing.

"

wrathmar wrote:

Yes we have covered this before, Just because you have played larger total number of hours does not invalidate my experiences or opinions.

I've played mostly solo, but have also spent a large amount of time in groups. A 6 person party of pixilated DPS turns the game content into a *JOKE*. Their is minimal tactics involved, just spam spam spam non-target specific AOE attacks. This game dynamic is obvious after the first 1 hour, I doubt that it is going to change after hour 1,000.

Scrotie, Buffing monster HP has proven to be ineffective to this point. Without changing other defensive qualities buffing HP would not be enough. I don't expect GGG to implement my changes without testing.

But everytime you mention you started before me, as if that factor alone is worth merit compared to the MASSIVE playtime difference and game experience that I have compared to you. I'm simply pointing out a flaw in your perspective that you cannot possible understand because you lack the experience to backup your arguments.

Unless you are deleting characters then I'm missing something, how or more importantly where are you partying at? Even farming dried lake in a party setting would have netted you a higher level character then your current one.....either I'm missing something here or your complaining about something like leveling up and playing in a party, which obviously has a much different effect and is a completely different topic then endgame mapping.

Saying that the game doesn't change from hour 1 to hour 1000 just shows how ignorant you really are about the game. In terms of does Billy spam the same right mouse button throughout the whole game, sure every single ARPG game does that spams a few buttons to kill mobs, are you looking for a tactical ARPG game.... more importantly builds, monsters and difficulty all scales with endgame maps in such a way you can't begin to understand with the lack of experience you have.


You shouldn't expect GGG to implement anything you suggested because its coming from someone that admits themselves they have little to no endgame experience, which is mainly what the whole game is about.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Spoiler

"

wrathmar wrote:

Yes we have covered this before, Just because you have played larger total number of hours does not invalidate my experiences or opinions.

I've played mostly solo, but have also spent a large amount of time in groups. A 6 person party of pixilated DPS turns the game content into a *JOKE*. Their is minimal tactics involved, just spam spam spam non-target specific AOE attacks. This game dynamic is obvious after the first 1 hour, I doubt that it is going to change after hour 1,000.

Scrotie, Buffing monster HP has proven to be ineffective to this point. Without changing other defensive qualities buffing HP would not be enough. I don't expect GGG to implement my changes without testing.

But everytime you mention you started before me, as if that factor alone is worth merit compared to the MASSIVE playtime difference and game experience that I have compared to you. I'm simply pointing out a flaw in your perspective that you cannot possible understand because you lack the experience to backup your arguments.

Unless you are deleting characters then I'm missing something, how or more importantly where are you partying at? Even farming dried lake in a party setting would have netted you a higher level character then your current one.....either I'm missing something here or your complaining about something like leveling up and playing in a party, which obviously has a much different effect and is a completely different topic then endgame mapping.

Saying that the game doesn't change from hour 1 to hour 1000 just shows how ignorant you really are about the game. In terms of does Billy spam the same right mouse button throughout the whole game, sure every single ARPG game does that spams a few buttons to kill mobs, are you looking for a tactical ARPG game.... more importantly builds, monsters and difficulty all scales with endgame maps in such a way you can't begin to understand with the lack of experience you have.


You shouldn't expect GGG to implement anything you suggested because its coming from someone that admits themselves they have little to no endgame experience, which is mainly what the whole game is about.

WOQW it is like talking to a wall. I don't know why I bother.

"But everytime you mention you started before me, as if that factor alone is worth merit compared to the MASSIVE playtime difference and game experience that I have compared to you. I'm simply pointing out a flaw in your perspective that you cannot possible understand because you lack the experience to backup your arguments."

Perspective, perspective, perspective. ""But everytime you mention you've played more hours than me, as if that factor alone is worth merit"

Loving the pissing contest on this thread but really what's the point?

Groups are more powerful. They diminish the game difficulty and ramp up the experience. By and large people play in groups. Downside? The game is pretty laggy for most groups and you really don't see much of what is actually going on which can diminish the fun for some people.

Solo (for me) is a lot more fun so I just don't play in groups. I don't make threads about why group balance is way off and needs dramatic change. If you don't think the buff to monster health is relevant to group play go run a poorjoy's by yourself and then try it in a group to really feel the difference. Even with very limited group play I can tell you I'v seen more people die in full groups on HC than I have running solo or with a couple friends.

Is a lot of content trivialized? Yes. Does that mean the balance is off? Not necessarily. Could just be people focus on high DPS builds so their collective damage is exponential. This is especially true when you factor in auras. Really though if you don't like group balance just play solo (or with select friends).

**This is just an opinion so by all means don't attack my "experience" level with the game.** LOL