It's finally time to balance groups

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wrathmar wrote:

6 person party turns complex and challenging encounters into a JOKE. A full party outputs so much pixilated DPS that most monster die before they can challenging a player.
.

Are you sure that it's "party" play that is causing this and not just OP builds? Nobody parties to do Atziri, yet I've seen videos of people clearing the whole Apex in minutes. Don't you think those same builds can clear every area just as easily? And don't you think that these videos you're watching are people geared out like that? You're trying to fix partying but the real issue you're complaining about is the dps that individual builds are putting out. People don't post videos using crap gear. Nobody wants to watch a 20 minute map clear. Stop blaming parties.

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goetzjam wrote:

...How on earth can you suggest a change that affects part of the game what you have never played and somehow think that is fine?...

This point is valid, but there is one problem with it: The reason why some people have no exp with certain aspects of the game is more important tha the exp alone. Trivial example: The performance is so bad that I cannot party without flying absolutely blind. So I have very little exp in parties. But my opinion "can't party in this game, pls fix" is valid nonetheless.

+100 to toning down gfx effects in parties.

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mark1030 wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

6 person party turns complex and challenging encounters into a JOKE. A full party outputs so much pixilated DPS that most monster die before they can challenging a player.
.

Are you sure that it's "party" play that is causing this and not just OP builds? Nobody parties to do Atziri, yet I've seen videos of people clearing the whole Apex in minutes. Don't you think those same builds can clear every area just as easily? And don't you think that these videos you're watching are people geared out like that? You're trying to fix partying but the real issue you're complaining about is the dps that individual builds are putting out. People don't post videos using crap gear. Nobody wants to watch a 20 minute map clear. Stop blaming parties.

Gear is obviously not a factor and builds!

HE
HE
HE

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mark1030 wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

6 person party turns complex and challenging encounters into a JOKE. A full party outputs so much pixilated DPS that most monster die before they can challenging a player.
.

Are you sure that it's "party" play that is causing this and not just OP builds? Nobody parties to do Atziri, yet I've seen videos of people clearing the whole Apex in minutes. Don't you think those same builds can clear every area just as easily? And don't you think that these videos you're watching are people geared out like that? You're trying to fix partying but the real issue you're complaining about is the dps that individual builds are putting out. People don't post videos using crap gear. Nobody wants to watch a 20 minute map clear. Stop blaming parties.

Yes OP builds that can power clear are also an issue. In general GGG needs to be much more proactive about balancing, including solo builds, and group synergies.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

Scrotie, Buffing monster HP has proven to be ineffective to this point. Without changing other defensive qualities buffing HP would not be enough. I don't expect GGG to implement my changes without testing.

What you don't appreciate is that players are not trying to play a completely different game while partying; it should feel like the same content.

HP increased wouldn't be ineffective, even if insufficient alone. If you're looking for some kind of miracle cure-all suggestion it doesn't exist, just doing several common-sense things is the right approach. I feel goetz is being a little too conservative but 80% for Merciless would be a step in the right direction.

Fixing particles is important too, but resource intensive. Perhaps a very small (2% per additional player?) penalty to player move/attack/cast speed would be good too, to slow the pace down a bit to what player's graphic cards can handle (this would also be an effective 2% more speed for enemies, but that's probably fair).

Every patch GGG has added additional ways to increase damage without adjusting monster defense. Reducing Attack/cast speed would provide a limiter on groups and improve particle clutter. I don't think it would be enough, but without a test environment I'm just guessing...

For particles, how about allowing players to control the transparency of team mates effects? If I could set my team mates spells to be 80% transparent I could actually see what is going on in the game.

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grant_m wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Am I missing something or not. Your perception is based on what exactly, level 70 parties farming merciless ledge? I just don't see where your experience with partying is coming from, mainly because you haven't shared that at all.

And YOUR perception is based on what, exactly? No-lifing a game for years on end, every day 12 hours per day and having no accomplishments of note as a result?

His opinion represents a MAJORITY of players, while yours represents a tiny percentage at best.

His opinion therefore more important and noteworthy.

Yeah I completely no life PoE you got me /s I will have you know I go hard for a week or two and maybe up to a month in a temp league and my activity falls off shortly after that. In terms of 12 hours a day, that just isn't possible for me as I work m-f, at best I get 10 hours, but realistically its around 8 hours or less on weekdays. Weekends might be more because I typically don't have any obligations there.

No accomplishments, what the hell are you even talking about? Did you just look through all my characters and see the gear they have on them and assume that I have nothing of value or where are you getting your "no accomplishments" from. I play PoE because I find the game fun, I dont play it to get to level 100, win races or any other arbitrary thing the game provides as some sort of "incentive" to play a specific way.


Majority doesn't matter 1 bit at all. If we followed what the "majority" of people wanted PoE would have an AH, PoE would have an offline client, PoE would have better drop rates and no mirrors. The simple fact you mentioned the majority here just shows how weak your argument is. This game was never designed to cater to the "majority" of players, if it was it would have been designed much differently, just look at d3 for reference.

You and he cannot claim that the whole game needs to be changed in terms of party play because your experience up to level 70 or 80 has been XX. That is one of the most ignorant things I've read on these forums.

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This point is valid, but there is one problem with it: The reason why some people have no exp with certain aspects of the game is more important tha the exp alone. Trivial example: The performance is so bad that I cannot party without flying absolutely blind. So I have very little exp in parties. But my opinion "can't party in this game, pls fix" is valid nonetheless.

But that is a completely different argument then party play isn't balanced, despite not playing it in endgame setting, where it matters the most.

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Yes OP builds that can power clear are also an issue. In general GGG needs to be much more proactive about balancing, including solo builds, and group synergies.

GGG balances the game with the release of temp leagues, which also introduce new skill gems, unique items and passive tree changes. Are you suggesting there is a better way to balance the game then these larger balance patches?

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For particles, how about allowing players to control the transparency of team mates effects? If I could set my team mates spells to be 80% transparent I could actually see what is going on in the game.

That is a great suggestion, but the "consensuses" whether or not if its true is that will add additional graphic lag because of the opacity calculations.

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goetzjam wrote:

You and he cannot claim that the whole game needs to be changed in terms of party play because your experience up to level 70 or 80 has been XX. That is one of the most ignorant things I've read on these forums.

Every time you call me ignorant I hear the South Park version of MJ

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wrathmar wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

You and he cannot claim that the whole game needs to be changed in terms of party play because your experience up to level 70 or 80 has been XX. That is one of the most ignorant things I've read on these forums.

Every time you call me ignorant I hear the South Park version of MJ

He is right you know.

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I_NO wrote:

He is right you know.

NO He is not.

I do not need to level past a specific level threshold to have an opinion on game balance. Even if my current 3+ days /played toon was my first, and I didn't spend MANY days played in closed beta... My assessment that groups in this game turn challenging complex content into a joke, is spot on accurate!

The unbalanced mess of party play in POE does not magically change post level 70. It continues to be a mindless content rush with 6 players spamming attacks.

The balance suggestions are mostly designed to make monsters survive longer to interact with players.

Will the overdue balance adjustment to parties need to account for variables surrounding Maps and Races?
Yes, yes they will.

I'm currently level 67 in act3 of talisman, Once I finish merciless I'll jump into Map pugs...

I would be surprised if they are drastically different, then every POE party I have played up to this point.

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Darkkrows wrote:

Instead, for every additional players we reduce their attack speed, cast speed by <insert balance amount here>. Monster HP stays the same +60%, player dps is slowed, now u finally can see wtf is happening because less particle is produced & players wont blast everything in a sec because they are slowed.

1 Solution solve 2 problems.

This solution will either do nothing (because CoC/lolnir will still be producing a bajillion of effects) or gimp everybody except maybe CoC/lolnir so hard the forum will be flooded with whine (which, surprisingly, will be justified).

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wrathmar wrote:

I'm currently level 67 in act3 of talisman, Once I finish merciless I'll jump into Map pugs...

I would be surprised if they are drastically different, then every POE party I have played up to this point.

Maybe top-tier ones, though I doubt it. Certainly not low and mid ones which are the same "more dakka!" clusterfuck.