It's finally time to balance groups

So goat... with your "IMMENSE" knowledge of mapping what SPECIFIC changes would you propose to improve the clusterfuck nature of groups???

+2 for each productive idea
-10 for each insult.

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wrathmar wrote:

So goat... with your "IMMENSE" knowledge of mapping what SPECIFIC changes would you propose to improve the clusterfuck nature of groups???

+2 for each productive idea
-10 for each insult.

Instead of nerfing group gameplay, I rather suggest a better balance of solo play in comparison.

I already said slightly adjust the life of mobs to 80% in merciless, if this is too low then it can be increased in a future patch.

Change the zana mods to be a per portal cost, the downside to this would be instances like Nemesis, which should still force open all portals due to a pure exalted cost. I guess the current league mod should also remain its fixed 3ex cost. So basically make all the ones that cost chaos a portion via the amount of portals opened. If you DC or logout or have any other issues, you basically lose your map if you dont open enough portals.


DONT reduce the size of a party, I enjoy playing with full parties when you get enough in common or want to build around synergies.

In terms of cluster fuck, not sure what you mean, the animations and all that is a bit too much, we already know that. GGG has already indicated that they are going to work on performance issues.


If you want more perhaps you can start by actually addressing why you see parties as a problem besides its "too beneficial" or its pointless because people can kill before everyone attacks or what have you. Its also difficult to discuss this with someone because I have to also consider that you've never played in high end map rotations or done the new map mods, which drastically changes the way or more importantly the possibility for just mashed together parties.

I play almost exclusively in the HC temp leagues now, but I rarely party with anyone I'm not in voice with. This also plays a large factor in terms of balance because in a HC setting there simply is too much going on that can get you killed to not communicate with your party members.

Its extremely difficult to discuss anything relating to balance with someone I have to assume has never put themselves in a situation where they can relate to anything I am saying.

"

goetzjam wrote:

I play almost exclusively in the HC temp leagues now, but I rarely party with anyone I'm not in voice with. This also plays a large factor in terms of balance because in a HC setting there simply is too much going on that can get you killed to not communicate with your party members.

Quoted you because this part I can agree with. zana rota is the only time I use pub partys/group play (effectively), map level is most of the time low enough - even if you fuck up a situation you will prbly survive... but playing with more than 2 ppl in a party without voice is asking for a RIP.

PoE maybe needs a a voice tool integrated, not something excluded like TS... you join a party and you join the voice channel too... ofc, this tool has some QoL standards like "mute" if someone is really annpying but let's be honest... no one uses external voice tools like TS for public partys and even most guilds or organized partys lack voiceserver etc... >.>

And last but not least, most important for me is the performance... sure they are working on it, but before they haven't "fixed" most performance issues in PoE there is no need to do anything for groups... groups amplify just the already existing problems...



@ wrathmar -> This script helped a lot of people already:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1473168/

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

This thread isn't about group balance at all, considering I do the exact same thing to monsters without a party..

This is what I was tried to say but it wasn't really addressed.

To complain about parties is silly when in many parties, one or maybe two people are killing everything while the rest try to keep up and are lucky to even get some shots off. The problem isn't parties, it's individual builds that can wreck things. Unless you're running with a support character, the unbalance in parties like op says he sees in videos is op characters carrying leechers. The leechers might not be intending to leech, but there are always people in parties that are killing stuff before others get the chance.

"

kcstar wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

I play almost exclusively in the HC temp leagues now, but I rarely party with anyone I'm not in voice with. This also plays a large factor in terms of balance because in a HC setting there simply is too much going on that can get you killed to not communicate with your party members.

Quoted you because this part I can agree with. zana rota is the only time I use pub partys/group play (effectively), map level is most of the time low enough - even if you fuck up a situation you will prbly survive... but playing with more than 2 ppl in a party without voice is asking for a RIP.

PoE maybe needs a a voice tool integrated, not something excluded like TS... you join a party and you join the voice channel too... ofc, this tool has some QoL standards like "mute" if someone is really annpying but let's be honest... no one uses external voice tools like TS for public partys and even most guilds or organized partys lack voiceserver etc... >.>

And last but not least, most important for me is the performance... sure they are working on it, but before they haven't "fixed" most performance issues in PoE there is no need to do anything for groups... groups amplify just the already existing problems...



@ wrathmar -> This script helped a lot of people already:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1473168/

I doubt poe ever gets integrated voice, even a much larger game like D3 doesn't have integrated voice.

As for guilds not having voice there really is no excuse not to, mumble is cheap and I think discord is free (currently)


Also its funny people suggest that script that blocks people. Ignoring people doesn't solve the issue if you have no counter argument to your "point" That script should only be used for people breaking forum rules that GGG refuses to enforce or strait up harassment (which again is against the forum rules) In addition you will miss who exactly some people are quoting and to what they have said completely.

"

goetzjam wrote:

I doubt poe ever gets integrated voice, even a much larger game like D3 doesn't have integrated voice.

As for guilds not having voice there really is no excuse not to, mumble is cheap and I think discord is free (currently)


Also its funny people suggest that script that blocks people. Ignoring people doesn't solve the issue if you have no counter argument to your "point" That script should only be used for people breaking forum rules that GGG refuses to enforce or strait up harassment (which again is against the forum rules) In addition you will miss who exactly some people are quoting and to what they have said completely.

Maybe ... maybe not. But you agree "voice" helps group play a lot (not only in hc). So, this should at least be a point on the agenda. I don't compare everything with D3... maybe D3 requires less coordination, maybe it's less cluster fuck in partys... dunno, I have no experience with D3. Because D3 has something or misses something that doesn't mean PoE has to be the same way!? oO

Hope "even d3 doesn't have xyz" isn't a valid argument... in ANY discussion here xD

PS: People? I (!) have suggested that script.
Sometimes it doesn't help to read everything either. Some people are just bad for the mood/health... and in the end we are spending free time while playing/discussing PoE. No one should be forced to read stuff that only ruins someones day. Even if you don't like it.
Look, you are still visible for me... that should be enough :D

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kcstar wrote:

Maybe ... maybe not. But you agree "voice" helps group play a lot (not only in hc). So, this should at least be a point on the agenda. I don't compare everything with D3... maybe D3 requires less coordination, maybe it's less cluster fuck in partys... dunno, I have no experience with D3. Because D3 has something or misses something that doesn't mean PoE has to be the same way!? oO

Hope "even d3 doesn't have xyz" isn't a valid argument... in ANY discussion here xD

PS: People? I (!) have suggested that script.
Sometimes it doesn't help to read everything either. Some people are just bad for the mood/health... and in the end we are spending free time while playing/discussing PoE. No one should be forced to read stuff that only ruins someones day. Even if you don't like it.
Look, you are still visible for me... that should be enough :D

Voice allows for better communication for sure, the only reason why I mentioned D3 is because i have played it and it too requires coordination for play. The current meta over there is 3 support characters and 1 DPS character, because its a matter of climbing in rift difficulty which scales monster health to an extreme that is basically unimaginable.

Do we have to compare everything to D3, no I was simply stating that so people can get an idea that a much larger game doesn't have voice integration. Maybe GGG can coordinate with one of the current voice providers and integrate a voice solution, it would be utilized, but at the same time GGG is a smaller dev company and thats just one more thing they would have to worry about, that the community can solve themselves.

I know many people don't read my rather long post and just read what others have to say, personally I don't have an issue with it, the issue I have is suggesting that people completely ignore someone else that is trying to contribute to the discussion and is doing so by following the rules, if you can't ignore post you don't want to respond to without a script, then you should be posting on here in the first place.

As for the fact I'm still visible for you, thats a good thing for you :D

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mark1030 wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

This thread isn't about group balance at all, considering I do the exact same thing to monsters without a party..

This is what I was tried to say but it wasn't really addressed.

To complain about parties is silly when in many parties, one or maybe two people are killing everything while the rest try to keep up and are lucky to even get some shots off. The problem isn't parties, it's individual builds that can wreck things. Unless you're running with a support character, the unbalance in parties like op says he sees in videos is op characters carrying leechers. The leechers might not be intending to leech, but there are always people in parties that are killing stuff before others get the chance.

what you describe is A problem with parties, just like the op described a problem.

but there isnt just one problem with parties.

the clear speed meta is just one drop in the bucket .

But as A problem with parties, it's the result of a different problem, not the cause of it. Parties aren't powerful because they're parties. They are powerful because individual builds are so powerful they don't even notice more monster health. It's really not much different than d2's /players 8 command. The extra monster life is easily overcome by powerful builds. Makes no difference if you are solo in /players 8 or in an actual 8 person party. Strong builds don't benefit from a party other than the extra loot.

@ GoatzJam

I've seen the suggestion to link total number of portals to contributed currency. I could see the need for some QOL improvements surrounding mapping, maybe add a 2*6 grid to the map device UI for party members to contribute currency. The party leader then can us them to roll real time and members can see the results.

Regarding group communications, I would like to see the chat system overhauled, and I think user defined chat short cuts would be nice (ctrl+t = send TP please; ctrl+e = corpse exploder)

@ mark1030

I did not intend my original response to be dismissive. Yes solo OP balance is a major issue which causes many issues with parties. I'll think this over and update my OP later tonight...

GGG needs to be more proactive with balancing both mid and late game. Maybe they should rethink their Alpha Testing to better catch skill imbalances.

Maybe adding some additional hard caps to limit top tier damage, or nerf specific support gems, and AOE in general.

Maybe having the next league be flashback inspired and disable some skills/Uniques.