imo Mana, Energy Shield and Leech are not good enough
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It's honestly hard to get enough regen.
Let's consider lightning tendrils as a fun example. It has a base cost of 26. Faster casting is 1.2, Penetration is 1.4, Spell Echo 1.4, Leech is 1.3, and Crit Damage is 1.3. So we get a base cost of 26*1.2*1.4*1.4*1.3*1.3=103.35. The base cast time is 1.25 cast/sec. With 50% from faster casting and 50% from gear+tree we get 2.5 casts/sec, with echo 103.35*2.5*1.7/2=219.6. Ok that seems hard, what happens when we get 4 jewels with 5% reduced cost, and put 3 points into 11% reduced cost, 219 x 0.66 = 145 mana/sec. With a tree that uses 5 points into mana, 150% regen on gear, and 100 flat mana on gear I get 127/sec. So not enough. Then you can consider Elreon jewelry but you get the tradeoff that you get -8 but you get lower regen rolls, so even then you can't really sustain. And then you're hit with a -regen map and you still have to use a mana pot. But it seems like if clarity had +5 regen, or spells had 15% lower cost it would be fine. OTOH I wonder if that would make spells too easy to sustain for little investment compared to the accuracy and damage rolls attackers need on their gear. All my builds /view-thread/1430399
T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265 |
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your tree and example shows that there is no problem. it is hard but it is not impossible. and 5 points is acceptable cost
you can drop Nimbleness cluster (or some cast speed source) and spec into mana reaching equilibrium or surplus. or add even more damage but be ready to pay for it with more frequent mana chugging. players choice, nothing is really forced. with finetuning for mana/mana%/regen/-cost relation youd probably reach equilibrium even without it. it is just one formula. there are also tricks like: HoT + Mana Leech / CWDT + spell + Mana Leech / Devouring Totem or my fav and easiest to do: mana on kill. makes pack clearing easy even with huge mana deficit There are also Hybrid flasks (your build uses both GR and VP so you have to 'pump' your life with flasks anyway) what is a problem and i will repeat myself here is the ZERO mana regen mod on maps. im fine with 'XX% reduced' but not with ZERO regen. it is the sole reason people aiming for 'all map mods' builds will NEVER look at mana. this should not be the case. |
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" They reduced manacost but reduced cast time by same amount. So, essentially it changes nothing. I can agree, that investments into mana to sustain skills feel reasonable. But why this applies only to spells? Why melee/bow can sustain skills on mana with 0 investments, and caster cant? Kinda unfair... So, you either increase mana cost for attacks (so those require mana investments as well), either reduce mana cost for spells so they will be as spammable as attacks are. Or you set sertain kind of "balance" between skill's power and its manacost, so cheap attacks/spells are spammable, but deal low base DPS, while expensive ones deal much high base DPS... ATM, this isnt an issue. Incinerate's mana cost (per second) is on par with other spells, and there is quite a litle correlation between attack skill's power and its mana cost. And dont forget about BM. When your skills are too cheap, BM is trash. When they're too expensive, it's almost mandatory. I know, some players tend to grab too much cast speed, made 0 mana invetments and pick too expensive supports. But base mana costs or spells are so high, and you cant leech 20% mana/sec or gain it on hit with just a single mod.... And what's more important, only Incinerate rewards yourmana investments, because of raw base DPS power. Other spells dont. About accuracy. Proper crit build's investments into accuracy are actually just 2-3 good accuracy suffix rolls (250+) on gear. That's all. You dont pick accuracy from passives intentionally, it comes naturally from certain notables on top of other bonuses. Also, there is Ice Golem for +30% accuracy boost. Very few crit builds dont have "natural" access to %increased accuracy in their tree, and spend 2-3 nodes for a single accuracy cluster, that's more than enough. IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power |
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" its insufficient for the way YOU want to play. which is to invest as little as possible into resource management so you can invest in defense, aka the most efficient way. nowhere does it say anything in this game should be focused around efficiency. yet it is. so the mana pot is in the game but noone wants to use it unless its like 30 secs long lol. so again, players don't want to pay for anything. unless GGG makes it a mandatory flask where a mana flask counters a corrupt blood stack mechanics (how many people carried a staunching flask before corrupting blood was introduced ? not many Id say, most bleeds aside from some rares were manageable before that) no one will use it. why ? because its inefficient. |
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quick show of hands, how many people use rallying cry for mana problems ?
anyone ? I thought so it gives you 14 flat mana regen that you can scale with items and nodes, for 8 seconds. and quality + incr duration will give you a ton of buff uptime but no one wants to use a temp buff that helps mana regen. its inefficient and uncomfortable to the way THEY want to play the game and the way theyve been CONDITIONED to play the game for 1000s hours by others who play the game that way. goes back to the days when AA was meant to be a temp buff and players decided theyd make it binary- either dont use it at all or make it be permanent. Last edited by grepman#2451 on Oct 31, 2015, 8:39:20 PM
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" What's the point of using rallying cry if a split arrow-chain or kb-chain or coc-discharge build will kill the mob pack by the time the cry finishes. You just can't build a top-end competitive build that relies on a cry just to function. All my builds /view-thread/1430399
T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265 |
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" Using a warcry that takes about half a second to cast is hardly going to wreck clearspeed. And comparing a caster build, which can scale damage off gems with little gear investment, against a COC-discharge build that will take dozens of exalts to get running is hardly fair. |
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"Rallying sounds like a good idea, but with the damage level in 2.0, EC remains a preferred choice in many cases. Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch? If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch. Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart... |
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[Sorry I ended up going off topic I guess but I do hope someone will take up the quest for a generic witch survivability build. Otherwise just ignore this as its not really on topic period.]
I feel your pain but I am not sure I agree with it. I believe there are ways yet to be discovered to address a lot of your comments, but unfortunately I am more interested in playing a Marauder to explore that statement. One thing for sure is that POE 1.x was the release of the Witch. Pretty much any witch build could work and it was fairly easy to come up with what was necessary to survive. In POE 2.x, I feel it is primarily about the melee builds. Witch and Ranger builds still work, but you are much more constrained to specific builds. Melee builds in this release have a much greater viability than in 1.0. In 1.0, all I ever played was a witch. I loved it and liked every possible build you could come up with. I started with a summoner for 2.0 and that quickly ended my witch career. I died to Malachai at least 64 times in a row on normal (granted this was before the nerf to make normal easier than merciless). My summoner destroyed everything until I came to Malachai and then the extreme AOE nature of his attacks basically made my minions useless. Since then, I went on to explore melee since I knew this was the focus for 2.0. Now I am a Marauder and Facebreaker lover. I personally feel that if someone took up the challenge to develop a witch build that could survive the times with a small amount of point investment that the witch could shine again. The point of the build would be to provide a method to add survivability to ANY witch build with a small amount of point investment so that people could play their favourite builds again. |
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" I used it for my bow build. Worked fine, and i'm very fond of this skill. Even if i ran OOM, i have mana for shot in 1 second (it costs 35 mana in 6-link). But dont overestimate it. It's just 14 mana/sec base regen, and spell usage requires 200-300 mana/second. So how am i supposed to get remaining 150-250 mana/sec? IGN: MortalKombat Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Nov 1, 2015, 11:35:08 AM
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